Mulling over possible opportunity in Burlington, need advice (South Burlington, Albany: transplants, real estate)
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I live in NY State a little bit north of NY City. I am mulling a career change, and I am close to securing a possible training/internship programm that almost always leads to a decent paid job with benefits, but it is not guaranteed, and I imagine the financial mantra "past performance is no guarantee of future results" holds true in terms of that guarantee this year, but who knows? This opportunity would involve my moving to the Burlington area.
Now my wife and kids would stay down in NY, possibly moving in with other family for about a year until I am certain it all works out and then if so they'd join me and we'd look for a more permanent home.
I have made a couple of visits to the area, and this is what I've noticed, in my view:
PROS:
1) Lots of natural beauty, love the "jogging/biking/hiking/coffee shop" culture reminiscent of a small, colder version of Seattle (the "Berkeley-esque" politics of some of Burlington itself are a little jarring, but I am more left than right politically and seemed comfortable in the surrounding towns in that sense).
2) Everyone I dealt with was VERY friendly and warm, more than most areas I have been to.
3) More "transplants" than I expected (though not too much) from many more areas than I expected, so I don't think I'd feel like too much of an "outsider".
4) Great, diverse restaurants (for example, I had some inexpensive Vietnamese food when I visited, back home it's either expensive (and not common) or you have to go to Manhattan for it).
5) Fairly crime and traffic/hassle free, but big enough to not feel like everybody knows you.
CONS:
1) More expensive (especially housing) than I expected (using areas in adjacent upstate NY for a comparison, though still nowhere near the crazy expenses of where I'm from now.....maybe that's why I saw so many NJ and CT (and a couple of CA?) license plates up there).
2) Not sure what the job market is really like here (more on that in questions later).
Here are the questions/advice I am looking for from this forum. Note in your answer that I am only thinking about the Burlington area in this regard and not the rest of the state. Also, while I do like having shops, restaurants and have lived near NYC most of my life (except for 4 years in the Albany, NY area), things like Broadway shows are not that important to me (who can afford them anyway?) and I'm fairly into the "outdoors".
- Does anything about the area wear on "transplants" after awhile? Does it make a difference where they're originally from (i.e. city vs. rural, northeast vs. other part of America, climate where they came from)?
- What is the job market like in the Education field? My wife has a NY State Teaching Assistant certificate, but major budget issues in school districts down here has made it almost impossible for her to get such a job despite many, many school districts, new charter schools, etc.. She had a long period where she was subbing, even in Special Ed, but local budgets have dried a lot of that up too. Schoolspring.com seems to suggest a lot more open subbing and asst/paraprofessional opporutnities than I expected up in Burlington and environs, but I'm always leery of using online job ads as a barometer of this. Knowing she'd eventually have a decent shot at something like this up there would be a plus in considering the opportunity I may have before me.
So any thoughts, advice, would be much appreciated. Looks like a great place to be if you can tolerate winter and have decent jobs.
As you have noticed the area is expensive, and COL is disproportionate to wages. Subbing in VT pays 75 bucks a day, Paras around 10-12 an hour. Despite budget woes there doesn't seem to be any education cuts yet. But that day must come.
Major concern is if your 'one' good job vaporizes for any reason, getting an equivalent replacement is not easy. There are some good jobs but what happened to us and I've seen this with other couples is one gets a good job and the other spouse can't find anything. Besides living away from the wife and kids for a year just to move to VT? You aren't fleeing the potato famine, and if you can't bring your family is it really economically justifiable? Besides where you live is a short drive, come on up and visit soak up the goodstuff and go home to a higher level of prosperity.
The observations about the scenery and the general lack of a serious crime which affects the general population is right on point. Regarding the economic and employment aspect only you can determine the level of risk you can assume on your actual situation. It's tough here and despite education being the traditional sacred cow the reality is that the way we spend in the face of ever dwindling enrollments cannot and should not continue. There is no solid indication that Vermont will see some sort of cash and tax windfall to keep current practices going and there will have to be cuts made which may not bode well for the occupations which have been up to this point immune from salary and benefit reductions. For those fortunate to have a great paying and secure job then the worries and realities of day to day existence do not apply and you will enjoy your options here.
The observations about the scenery and the general lack of a serious crime which affects the general population is right on point. Regarding the economic and employment aspect only you can determine the level of risk you can assume on your actual situation. It's tough here and despite education being the traditional sacred cow the reality is that the way we spend in the face of ever dwindling enrollments cannot and should not continue. There is no solid indication that Vermont will see some sort of cash and tax windfall to keep current practices going and there will have to be cuts made which may not bode well for the occupations which have been up to this point immune from salary and benefit reductions. For those fortunate to have a great paying and secure job then the worries and realities of day to day existence do not apply and you will enjoy your options here.
Good points (you too mustmove....did want to note that as you say my drive is short enough that we'd see each other 1 or 2 weekends/month.....I haven't done any job hunting outside of the Northeast as I can't imagine virtually not seeing my family for a year, so it's not like that (I give lots of credit in that regard to those fighting for us overseas as they are the ones really sacrificing)).
Flu, that sounds a lot like how education was/is in NY (and especially in the NYC area), all those problems are starting to happen here and to make it worse, because of various refuse-to-renegotiate union contracts more people in education are losing their jobs here than need to be because cuts are overwhelmingly happening to newer, lower paid professionals regardless of merit, so it's taking more job cuts to get the same savings. Even the very pro-union (and I'm not completely against unions either but still......) NY Daily News ripped apart this abusive aspect of what's going on here.....I was reading the online version of the Burlington paper and it noted how a lot of the local school budgets are being voted down (you folks do that about a month before us I guess, we do it in mid-May) and it was a sense of deja vu and what made me start this thread (as you said mustmove, this ain't happening if much past the short term I can't bring them up)......thanks again!
7 wishes, the real truth is that the vast majority of school budgets actually get approved and the ones that initially get voted down keep coming back with minor tweaks and still get passed. The education funding system here is quite a piece of work which I could not even begin to explain the mechanics of and keep it brief. At this point when the vast majority of people still working having had taken pay freezes or actual cuts in wage/benefits the teachers have been still able to garner annual raises and maintain benefits. Just today the South Burlington school raises made the paper. I can't imagine that this trend will be able to continue much longer. I agree that we are not alone with high education spending and innefficient operations, but being as small as we are you would think that we could get a handle on it, but this has not been the case. Sounds like you know what issues may impact your decision so continue your research and good luck.
I live in NY State a little bit north of NY City. I am mulling a career change, and I am close to securing a possible training/internship programm that almost always leads to a decent paid job with benefits, but it is not guaranteed, and I imagine the financial mantra "past performance is no guarantee of future results" holds true in terms of that guarantee this year, but who knows? This opportunity would involve my moving to the Burlington area.
Now my wife and kids would stay down in NY, possibly moving in with other family for about a year until I am certain it all works out and then if so they'd join me and we'd look for a more permanent home.
I have made a couple of visits to the area, and this is what I've noticed, in my view:
PROS:
1) Lots of natural beauty, love the "jogging/biking/hiking/coffee shop" culture reminiscent of a small, colder version of Seattle (the "Berkeley-esque" politics of some of Burlington itself are a little jarring, but I am more left than right politically and seemed comfortable in the surrounding towns in that sense).
2) Everyone I dealt with was VERY friendly and warm, more than most areas I have been to.
3) More "transplants" than I expected (though not too much) from many more areas than I expected, so I don't think I'd feel like too much of an "outsider".
4) Great, diverse restaurants (for example, I had some inexpensive Vietnamese food when I visited, back home it's either expensive (and not common) or you have to go to Manhattan for it).
5) Fairly crime and traffic/hassle free, but big enough to not feel like everybody knows you.
CONS:
1) More expensive (especially housing) than I expected (using areas in adjacent upstate NY for a comparison, though still nowhere near the crazy expenses of where I'm from now.....maybe that's why I saw so many NJ and CT (and a couple of CA?) license plates up there).
2) Not sure what the job market is really like here (more on that in questions later).
Here are the questions/advice I am looking for from this forum. Note in your answer that I am only thinking about the Burlington area in this regard and not the rest of the state. Also, while I do like having shops, restaurants and have lived near NYC most of my life (except for 4 years in the Albany, NY area), things like Broadway shows are not that important to me (who can afford them anyway?) and I'm fairly into the "outdoors".
- Does anything about the area wear on "transplants" after awhile? Does it make a difference where they're originally from (i.e. city vs. rural, northeast vs. other part of America, climate where they came from)?
- What is the job market like in the Education field? My wife has a NY State Teaching Assistant certificate, but major budget issues in school districts down here has made it almost impossible for her to get such a job despite many, many school districts, new charter schools, etc.. She had a long period where she was subbing, even in Special Ed, but local budgets have dried a lot of that up too. Schoolspring.com seems to suggest a lot more open subbing and asst/paraprofessional opporutnities than I expected up in Burlington and environs, but I'm always leery of using online job ads as a barometer of this. Knowing she'd eventually have a decent shot at something like this up there would be a plus in considering the opportunity I may have before me.
So any thoughts, advice, would be much appreciated. Looks like a great place to be if you can tolerate winter and have decent jobs.
Great post. Thanks...
You mentioned the expense of Broadway shows. In Burlington, you can see Broadway shows fairly regularly (if not frequently) at The Flynn at very reasonable prices, as well as every imaginable other sort of performance... Flynn Center for the Performing Arts and of course, you can enjoy the heck out of the outdoors from Burlington for free or for next to nothing.
And I believe you'll find the schools well funded by the property taxes, so jobs in schools should be available...
I think you'll find the real estate prices don't fluctuate in Burlington as much as they do in many places.
Best of luck!
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