Questions about Burlington, VT - Considering moving (South Burlington, Middlebury: fit in, best city)

[Fina1]

Hello everyone,

First I want to thank anyone who takes the time to read this entire post and respond.

I am planning on moving within the next year (if all goes well) and one of the places that I am considering is Burlington, VT. However, I have a few questions about the city before I begin applying for jobs and looking for housing.
I am moving out of Philadelphia because I don't like the big city life anymore, but I need to move somewhere where there are jobs and where I can rent a place to live.
My friends are discouraging me from moving to another city because they say that every 'large' city is going to be the same...no matter where I go.
I beg to differ, seeing as Burlington has maybe 50,000 people and Philadelphia has 1.5 million.
So I would like to know more about the city before I make further plans.

First question: I am a graduate from the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia with a B.S. in Biology. I also have previous experience helping people with computer problems at a library for a medical college.
Are there decent jobs in research or in studying the environment?

I was looking at jobs postings at some of the universities in the area and they had a few. Also, does the Echo Lake Aquarium & Science Center have available full time positions? Or is it a place where you need to volunteer for a year or so before getting a job?

Second question: How easy is it to get around the city? I had read somewhere that there is public transportation, but is it reliable and/or expensive?
Is Burlington walkable? Are there sidewalks on almost every street?
If I moved there and got a job in the city would I absolutely need a car, or could I walk or ride a bike where I need to go?
(I am used to walking at least 20 blocks a day in Philadelphia, so I have no problem walking long distances).

Third question: What are the people like? Are they generally friendly or is it a 'don't talk to strangers' type of place? Are there a lot of homeless people and beggars on the streets? Do people generally say "Hi" or "Good Morning" to others, or do they walk into you?

Fourth question: How quiet is it? If you opened your front door right now what would you hear or see? Would there be just a few people on the streets or cars honking and children running around unsupervised screaming at the tops of their lungs?

Fifth question: Is it safe? How is the crime rate?

Sixth question (getting tired yet): How is the air quality, pollution, and trash in the city? Does it always smell awful? Is the sky actually blue or is there a gray haze? How bad is the litter on the streets?
Can you see the stars at night?
I had read that the air quality is good, but I would like to get the opinion of someone who has lived there.

How many Burger Kings are there in Burlington? (I like BK)

As I said, the reasons I am so inquisitive is because I don't want to end up in another place like Philadelphia. Even if the population is significantly lower, I just wanted to make sure that the same problems don't exist...like some of my friends think they will.
Here the pollution is terrible. The sky is always gray and you're lucky if you can spot one or two stars at night. The crime rate is one of the worst if not the worst in the country. Several of my friends have been beaten and robbed either on campus or within 2 blocks of it.
There are homeless people on almost every corner begging for money. The public transportation is filthy and unreliable. A lot of the people here cannot control their kids, and attempt to do so with violence in public.
People curse, scream, blast loud music, and create chaos for no reason that I can think of. I've been on a bus where a crazy man threatened to kill everyone on it, and the driver did nothing about it for 30 blocks.
It smells, it's loud, and a lot of the people are absolutely terrible.

I am sorry for being so negative, but having come here from a suburban town in CT, it was quite a culture shock and I really would like to go back to a more quiet life. I've spent almost 6 years now and I can't wait to go somewhere a bit nicer.

So, can someone describe for me what Burlington VT is like and what kinds of jobs are available for someone with a degree in Biology and experience working with computers, customers, or in a library?

[vter]

Hey there - Burlington is a great place if you can make it work for you.
Jobs? The economy stinks right now. I'm sure you know that! DO NOT come up here without a job secured. Try Fletcher Allen Health Care. The University of Vermont as well, but I think they may be on a hiring freeze. Check the local papers-the Burlington Free Press burlingtonfreepress.com | The Burlington Free Press | Burlington news, community, entertainment, yellow pages and classifieds. Serving Burlington, Vermont and Seven Days Seven Days | Vermont's Independent Voice. You could try and email ECHO. I know they do have a lot of volunteers.
It's a small city so getting around is pretty easy. CCTA is the public transporatation system (bus). Yes there are sidewalks.
People - Burlington is a college town so you have quite a mix of different people. College kids, young professionals, families etc. You'll be sure to find some people who share your interests. There are some homeless and you'll see them around.
Depending on where you are in Burlingtno will depend on how quiet it is. If you are in the "hill" section near UVM it'll be louder during the school year. The New North End is very suburban like.
Air quality is good and you can see the stars at night (where there is no light pollution).
I have really bad news. There are no Burger Kings in Burlington. BUT DON'T DESPAIR!. There are 2 in South Burlington and one in Essex! So it's never too far away for your Whopper fix.
You may find Burlington too quiet but i like it. Montreal is a little under 2 hours north.

[Fina1]

Thank you very much for replying and giving me some insight on the city.
It sounds like a really nice place, and even though my current lease is not set to expire until February, I am beginning my job search now.
I definitely am not moving anywhere until I have a job secured, that's for sure.

I know the job market isn't so great, as I still receive phone calls for positions I applied for almost a year ago in this city.

I don't think it would be too quiet for me. Having lived in Philadelphia for almost 6 years now, being deaf might even be a godsend.

[MassVt]

...to the post from VTer, I might also add that crime, especially dangerous crime, is almost nonexistant in Burlington.

[History Rules]

I know what you mean about Filthadelphia, I used to live there and it seemed like the best city on earth if you ever got rid of the homeless beggars, thugs, trash and stench. Burlington has a totally different feel. Keep in mind, downtown Burlington is small and concentrated with Church Street the hub, it is tiny compared to Philadelphia, you can walk all of Downtown Burlington from corner to corner in about 20 minutes. Great views of the lake, food not nearly as good as Philly and no proximaty to Jersey Shore, NYC etc. On the plus side Burlington is clean, and very few homeless; people are friendly. Green Mountains are beautiful; Cabot Cheese, Ben and Jerseys all nice and within 40 minutes drive. I think living there without a car would be boring because of how small the city is and how few quality food choices compared to Philly, I don't think you will last. Winters also are much longer than Philly which effects you more without a car. Don't get me wrong, I would pick Burlington because the negatives in Philly wear you down, just not sure about the no car bit because the countryside in Vermont is so nice. Shelbourne is beautiful just south as is Middlebury. There is culture in Burlington because the college is there and there is good college hockey, however no professional sports teams, it is much more of a town than a city. Not nearly the amount of brewpubs as in Philly but at least you can buy beer in Supermarkets. If your food standard is Burger King food won't be an issue, try Al's burgers, just East of the throughway, there handcut fries are awesome.

[flu189]

BK we got until they outlaw it for nutritional reasons. It's good you were not hankering for Hooters as the only one in the state just closed the other day. Media reports claim the reason is unknown. Could it be the economy? Could it be it was too hard to find qualified hired help? We may never know.

[Fina1]

Thank you very much for this post. It's great to hear from someone else who lived in Philadelphia and now lives in Vermont.

Originally Posted by History Rules

I know what you mean about Filthadelphia, I used to live there and it seemed like the best city on earth if you ever got rid of the homeless beggars, thugs, trash and stench. Burlington has a totally different feel. Keep in mind, downtown Burlington is small and concentrated with Church Street the hub, it is tiny compared to Philadelphia, you can walk all of Downtown Burlington from corner to corner in about 20 minutes.

Great! I'm glad it's small. I like the fact that I can get to where I want quickly.
It's at least a 20 minute walk from my apartment here to the nearest grocery store. And without a car...well...carrying a lot of groceries that far isn't too fun.

Great views of the lake, food not nearly as good as Philly and no proximaty to Jersey Shore, NYC etc.

I love good scenery...it's one of the reasons I dislike Philly. It's almost all concrete. I actually moved to a new apartment complex farther from my work and it's twice as expensive as my old place, but it has a very large courtyard, with grills outside, two tennis courts, an elevated grassy green on top of a parking garage - complete with gardens and a pond with ducks.

Expensive and farther from work, but it's very very beautiful.

As far as food goes...I almost always eat in/cook my own stuff. I may order food out one a month and eat at a nice restaurant once every few months.
The only other times I eat the food here is during my lunch break at work...since BK is 2 blocks from it. And the BK food in the city is terrible compared to the food BK has in the suburbs. I've tried lots of different BKs.

On the plus side Burlington is clean, and very few homeless; people are friendly. Green Mountains are beautiful; Cabot Cheese, Ben and Jerseys all nice and within 40 minutes drive. I think living there without a car would be boring because of how small the city is and how few quality food choices compared to Philly, I don't think you will last.

That's good to hear. I am looking for a clean place.
Homeless people don't generally bother me. It's only when they follow around for several blocks, shout at you when you ignore them, or threaten to kill you that bothers me.

I am somewhat concerned about living there without a car, to be honest. I never needed one in Philadelphia, as parking is awful ($6.00 for 30 minutes in a parking garage is considered a 'SPECIAL!!')
I don't even have my license. Never needed to get it since I knew I was going to Philly once I got out of High School.
Now I am considering getting it and buying an inexpensive car.
Of course, this all depends on where I manage to find a job and how close to it I can find a place to live.

Winters also are much longer than Philly which effects you more without a car.

Good, I love the cold. I mean, I absolutely love it. I love the snow and I absolutely hate hate hate the heat.
Heat in the city is so much worse than it was in the suburbs for me because it really makes everything so much worse and everyone comes out and parties hard making noise until 2 AM or later.

I used to live across from a sports bar. During winter it was generally quiet, but during summer it was very hot and very noisy.

I definitely hate the heat.

There is culture in Burlington because the college is there and there is good college hockey, however no professional sports teams, it is much more of a town than a city.

Sounds like a paradise to me. All of the people who flock to the streets and riot when the Eagles or Philly WIN (not even lose) is insane. Traffic gets backed up for hours and everyone is late to everything.
The next day the streets are covered in vomit and garbage.

When there is a big game, the buses don't even display which route they are! Instead they display "GO EAGLES!!" or "GO PHILLIES". There are 4 buses that stop at my bus stop at work and all of them go very different ways. I never know which one is mine until I step inside and ask the driver.

The sports fanatics here are absolutely insane.

Not nearly the amount of brewpubs as in Philly but at least you can buy beer in Supermarkets.

Fine with me. I don't drink and I don't really like being around alcohol.

If your food standard is Burger King food won't be an issue, try Al's burgers, just East of the throughway, there handcut fries are awesome.

BK all the way!!

Edit: I call it Filthadelphia too, but sometimes I think Killadelphia is more fitting.

[MassVt]

For employment, definately check the Fletcher Allen Health Care hospital, which is also the teaching hospital of the UVM College of Medicine.

If you do manage to find emploment there, the you could live in some of the nearby neighborhoods, around Pearl Street. There will be some college students mixed in there as well, but there are also many single family homes, too, so I'm sure that you could find something suitable. You might also check out the apts/condos in nearby South Burlington, as well.

You'll have to get used to an metro area of about 100,000, as opposed to Philly's 3 million+. And the winters will be a bit longer, with much colder temperatures, and more snow; you'll have a number of January nights with temps below zero, and snowfall is usually at least 80 inches/year.

As I mentioned before, though, crime, especially serious crime, is negligible. And there are no slummy, deteriorating rowhouse neighborhoods in Burlington at all, unlike North/West Philly. If you can find that elusive job, then I think you'll really enjoy it.

[Fina1]

Thanks for your help.
I've already began looking at postings in different areas, and I will definitely be checking out the hospital.

I also read that the Burlington Police Department is in need of officers...and I've always kind of wanted to get involved in some type of civil service career like that.

The one problem is that I don't have a drivers license, which is a requirement.
Perhaps I'll get one soon and work out to get in shape.
Hey, who knows.

Again, thanks for your help everyone and Burlington will definitely be high up on my list of places to find a job and move to.

And if anyone hears of any opening or job positions anywhere through word of mouth that fit into a biology or research sector (or even library science / technology) send me a PM!

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Fina1

Good, I love the cold. I mean, I absolutely love it. I love the snow and I absolutely hate hate hate the heat.

Coming from Philly, are you sure you know what real cold is?

I hate heat and humidity too. Concerning the weather though, there are two things that I don't like up here. First, April. Aprils are usually lousy here. While the rest of the country is starting to turn green, we're still brown and hoping it doesn't snow again. You will be jipped out of one nice month living up here. Second, a lack of sunshine. We have a lot of cloudy days and it gets to some people. You may look in the newspaper and see Burlington with 70 degree weather in the summer, but it's often cloudy and damp. This summer has been pretty much of a sunshine disaster, but from what I understand, the entire east coast has been the same way. Statistically though, Burlington is one of the cloudiest cities in the country.

I love it here, but summers aren't the paradise I thought they'd be. I was surprised how humid it gets here. But it's rarely humid and hot. I was an air conditioning addict before moving here and I don't own one now.