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We have Hamburger King and a few places opened by former cooks. Named one of the top 10 burgers by Fortune magazine years ago.... very awesome heart attack burger, they also grill the bun on the flattop along side of the meat.
You're saying it's a $2 profit but you're leaving out the overhead costs of the lease, utilities, ect.
Get a food truck or open a small joint..... nothing fancy, a great burger will attract customers from all over but it helps to put it in a location where there's high population density during lunch or dinner. We have a couple burger joints like that, one bbq place that's so crowded people often share tables at lunch time.
Yes, I thought about the overhead costs, but since I will be going into existing establishments I don't think it would be appropriate to allocate some of those costs to the cost of the burger since they are going to be paid whether or not my burger comes into those establishments.
I hope to find a guy with a food truck or small joint in downtown Phoenix to sell my burger. I really don't want to run a burger joint.
Thank you for your comments. I must admit I have you at somewhat of a disadvantage since I know exactly what burger I am dealing with and I just can't divulge those details.
0 percent chance anybody pays a dollar per burger to use this
you would basically be charging 50-100 dollars for a bottle of this stuff that is the same as a typical marinate bottle to businesses that buy food and supplies in bulk at wholesale prices
thats not remotely realistic
0 percent chance anybody pays a dollar per burger to use this
you would basically be charging 50-100 dollars for a bottle of this stuff that is the same as a typical marinate bottle to businesses that buy food and supplies in bulk at wholesale prices
thats not remotely realistic
Thank you. I think you are right. But I still could just market the spices at a profit and still have the outlets follow my recipe and have them put the named burger on their menu so I can get it some publicity. Again, the profit I make on the spices is effectively their franchise fee for this burger.
Like individual McDonald's, I could let individual outlets charge whatever they want for this burger, but we would have an agreement where I control some of the ingredients such that the burger is uniform at all outlets. I would bulld a website listing all outlets that sell this named burger and the price at each outlet.
I have a recipe for a most excellent burger whose main ingredient is a proprietary spice marinade which gives it a unique flavor. I have access to a source of the spices.
I don't want to open my own burger stand with all the accompanying capital investment and other headaches of restaurant ownership.
I would prefer to sell the spices to existing small restaurants, like hot dog stands and others without a burger on their menu or who want to upgrade to this special burger. My profit would come in the sale of the spices. Hopefully, it could be $1-2 per burger, depending on burger size. I am retired on Social Security and not trying to get rich, just supplement my income by several humdred dollars per week in dozens of outlets in several large cities. What I don't know right now is whether existing restaurant owners would likely be open to try this type of profit sharing, or if this idea is DOA. Of course, this is a pretty transparent operation and nothing is really different for the owners except they must buy the spices from me. I know how many burgers they can marinade from a given quantity of spice mix. They would just reorder from me before they ran out.
I would hope to have a standard name used at all locations selling this burger as well as standard pricing so I could get it some unifrom publicity.
I know you will ask, "Why can't the owners go directly to your spice supplier and cut you out as the middleman?" Well, they could if they knew about this and where I get the spices. But when I pitch this idea and they get a taste of the burger, I will try to get them to sign our partnership/non-compete ageement ASAP.
Thoughts?
I just closed my restaurant after 15 years in the business and however good your product is there is no way that I would have even considered such a "partnership" deal whatever the product. Nobody's special spice combination is worth the extra work involved in promoting one special dish, ordering from one special supplier and fiddling around with the finances and numbers. It just wouldn't be cost effective. I can guarantee you that, if your product really is that good, I may not be able to duplicate it but I could come so close to it that it would be almost impossible to tell from the real deal!
A friend of mine created a hot sauce which he started bottling himself and selling locally and, a few years down the line with the taste of it having gained much popularity, he's now hooked up with the biggest local food distributor who sells it for him to restaurants and retail outlets. That would be the way to do it. Good luck!
PS: Unlike a large franchise operation where everything from the equipment to the product is uniform throughout, your "uniformity" isn't going to happen. Different restaurants use different grades of beef for their hamburgers, different cooking methods (pan, broiler, BBQ - gas or charcoal, griddle, etc.) as well as different cooking oils, different kinds of buns, etc. All this diversity is going to negate any uniformity where taste and texture is concerned.
Last edited by STT Resident; 10-21-2011 at 09:29 AM..
Reason: added PS
I just closed my restaurant after 15 years in the business and however good your product is there is no way that I would have even considered such a "partnership" deal whatever the product. Nobody's special spice combination is worth the extra work involved in promoting one special dish, ordering from one special supplier and fiddling around with the finances and numbers. It just wouldn't be cost effective. I can guarantee you that, if your product really is that good, I may not be able to duplicate it but I could come so close to it that it would be almost impossible to tell from the real deal!
A friend of mine created a hot sauce which he started bottling himself and selling locally and, a few years down the line with the taste of it having gained much popularity, he's now hooked up with the biggest local food distributor who sells it for him to restaurants and retail outlets. That would be the way to do it. Good luck!
PS: Unlike a large franchise operation where everything from the equipment to the product is uniform throughout, your "uniformity" isn't going to happen. Different restaurants use different grades of beef for their hamburgers, different cooking methods (pan, broiler, BBQ - gas or charcoal, griddle, etc.) as well as different cooking oils, different kinds of buns, etc. All this diversity is going to negate any uniformity where taste and texture is concerned.
Actually, the spice mixture is so complex that I don't know close you could come to it. Anyway, you couldn't use the same name that I am about to trademark and use for advertising purposes.
Thanks to the discussions in this thread and further thinking, I am modifying the originally stated business plan to sell the spices at cost and just ask for the $1 royalty per burger as the franchise fee. This is because I discovered that it will take much less spice mix to marinate a burger if you use a flavor injector. I need to determine exactly how many burgers can be marinated from one pound of spice mix. If it is, say, 100, I could give the spice mix away.
Your are correct. I could bottle the bun sauce and sell it. More likely, the restaurants that sell the burger would also sell bottles of the bun sauce. I don't know what kind of inspections you must pass to manufacture a food item, however, and that is contingent on the burger itself going.
The ground beef is just 80/20 and that is all I would specify. The buns can be of various brands as long as they are the right size. I don't think the method of cooking matters as long as the burger can be cooked to order where that is legal (like AZ but not CA) and no extraneous flavor is introduced. Although not perfect, I believe a sufficient uniformity is achievable.
Like I said, I don't want to sell burgers myself, but I must find a way to bring this burger to market. I just noticed that, like hot dog carts, there are now also burger carts (which can also make hot dogs, of course). I see some from China are very cheap and affordable for me. Problem is I am in Arizona and they ain't air conditioned.
I appreciate your input. I am still working on test cooking with the spices. I am getting carmelization of the sugars in the marinade on the top of the burger. It is all black. It doesn't look nice, but it doesn't seem to hurt the taste.
Actually, the spice mixture is so complex that I don't know close you could come to it. Anyway, you couldn't use the same name that I am about to trademark and use for advertising purposes.
Well, that's debatable. I don't know how many good cooks/chefs you've worked alongside but we're pretty knowledgeable about spices, copying and creativity! And why would anyone want to use your brand name. I can't think of any restaurant that promotes any dish along the lines of, "flavored with the famous Fred Furrball's Spice Mix!"
Thanks to the discussions in this thread and further thinking, I am modifying the originally stated business plan to sell the spices at cost and just ask for the $1 royalty per burger as the franchise fee.
Sorry, this is just not going to fly. As I said, a restaurateur isn't going to expend extra time and energy keeping track of every burger cooked with your spice blend when that's one item on a menu list which probably has at least 20 items on it. And how are YOU going to "police" how many of your burgers every outlet serves? I don't think you have any understanding at all of the business in this respect (and I say this WITH all due respect).
The ground beef is just 80/20 and that is all I would specify.
And I can tell you that that will go down like a zinc cupcake. When dealing with a restaurant with a full menu you can't be telling the owner what grade of hamburger meat he has to buy!
The buns can be of various brands as long as they are the right size.
I disagree that this isn't going to affect the flavor. Some restaurants use Kaiser buns, some sesame buns, some use onion buns and there are so many varieties of flavors and textures, many of which will indubitably affect the taste of the burger.
I don't think the method of cooking matters as long as the burger can be cooked to order where that is legal (like AZ but not CA) and no extraneous flavor is introduced. Although not perfect, I believe a sufficient uniformity is achievable.
And again I have to disagree. Different oils very much affect flavor and if you're dealing with a BBQ outlet, different sorts of charcoal likewise affect flavor.
I am still working on test cooking with the spices. I am getting carmelization of the sugars in the marinade on the top of the burger. It is all black. It doesn't look nice, but it doesn't seem to hurt the taste.
Presentation is just as crucial as flavor so best you work some more on that as a glob of black on top of a burger doesn't look very appetizing!
Well, sorry if I'm coming across as rather overbearing but I'm just trying to save you some time and effort on a plan that right now doesn't, in my opinion, seem viable. You're thinking way out of your league when, as has been suggested earlier, you need to slowly introduce your product in small arenas. Listen to those who are trying to give you good advice - and good luck!
Last edited by STT Resident; 10-21-2011 at 04:50 PM..
Not sure why anyone would give you "royalties" on their burger sales - that's not how this usually works. What they would do is just outright buy some quantity from you. If they like it and it sells, then they'll buy some more from you later. Simple as that...
...except, of course, that there is a good chance that they will figure out pretty quickly what is in your spices once they get their hands on it - especially since, as you point out, you can't really patent the dozen or two spices you put together. And that's the crux of the problem and why a unique ingredient or cooking process is best protected by serving it within the confines of a finished product yourself. It's not so easy for anyone to know what is in a Coke because they give you the finished product, not "Coke mix".
Well, sorry if I'm coming across as rather overbearing but I'm just trying to save you some time and effort on a plan that right now doesn't, in my opinion, seem viable. You're thinking way out of your league when, as has been suggested earlier, you need to slowly introduce your product in small arenas. Listen to those who are trying to give you good advice - and good luck!
I really appreciate your advice. That's what I wanted when I started this thread. I have thick skin. But I can make a few more points.
This burger was a culinary success some 40 years ago but the company that franchised the restaurants was not well managed and went out of business. But the spice supplier still sells the original marinade spices to individuals who ate and fondly remember this burger. I know of no commercial burger franchise today that marinades burgers, though some independents may, I just haven't heard of any.
Many have tried to duplicate this spice mix but none have come close. I think the point I have overlooked is in the intervening 40 years many marinades have been developed which could give a burger a unique taste. But again, no one I know of is doing this commercially, probably because individuals have unique tastes and they are afraid their taste may not be popular. But this burger already proved itself taste wise 40 years ago.
I would think that restaurants automatically track how many of each menu item they sell via cash register receipts and computer data bases. This is necessary to eliminate the money losing menu items.
I would prefer to get this on the menu of restaurants that don't presently have a burger so my specifications of receipe items doesn't conflict with their current operations and supply buying.
I am in a small town. There are many places a small burger stand could be placed, mainly parking lots of large businesses or strip malls. I may have to do that.
Not sure why anyone would give you "royalties" on their burger sales - that's not how this usually works. What they would do is just outright buy some quantity from you. If they like it and it sells, then they'll buy some more from you later. Simple as that...
...except, of course, that there is a good chance that they will figure out pretty quickly what is in your spices once they get their hands on it - especially since, as you point out, you can't really patent the dozen or two spices you put together. And that's the crux of the problem and why a unique ingredient or cooking process is best protected by serving it within the confines of a finished product yourself. It's not so easy for anyone to know what is in a Coke because they give you the finished product, not "Coke mix".
I would have no problem taking my profit in the price of the spice mix. A lot of restaurants "franchising" this burger through the price of the spice mix would still be preferable to me operating a single outlet.
I have said nobody will figure out this complex spice mix. Many have already tried and failed. The creator of this spice mix sold his formula to a very wealthy man. This investor didn't even try to figure out the formula, he just bought it.
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