Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I work for a small technology company. I recently had an idea for a new application of what we do. But it's different enough from our current business that it could be it's own business / product. I know that the founder/owner has the means and interest to fund its development. However, I don't just want to give him my idea. I'd like financial compensation greater than just my salary from its outcome. What's the best way to approach this situation? At this point I don't want to just go off and start my own company.
The first question I have is about your employment agreement. If there is no barrier, then I'd get some kind of IP protection, preferably with a decent IP attorney. THEN go to your employer on this, along with some kind of business case for its development.
I work for a small technology company. I recently had an idea for a new application of what we do. But it's different enough from our current business that it could be it's own business / product. I know that the founder/owner has the means and interest to fund its development. However, I don't just want to give him my idea. I'd like financial compensation greater than just my salary from its outcome. What's the best way to approach this situation? At this point I don't want to just go off and start my own company.
If your thoughts are related to your current work, albeit different and you are under certain clauses with your current contract/employer then your boss may have some claims to your 'ideas' as they are not 100% independent.
Brian is correct. If you develop an idea related to work that you currently do for an employer, he has rights to it as well. In truth, unless you have a major idea, the costs of protecting it and fighting for it in courts is going to be more than you can afford. Your better course of action is to breach the idea of developing it in return for (insert desired remuneration here).
The idea can't be something like "Hey, we can use our hammer to hammer walnuts as well as nails!" It has to be something that requires a certain amount of knowledge and expertise to pull off.
If you are an external party with a good idea that you can resell to your a company that is one thing, but having a company train you and then you improve on an idea or process and then try to license it back to them. That grey zone stuff. In the mob you will end up with a pair of concrete shoes for pulling that off as it is seen as not honourable at all.
If you have an employment contract, best to check the terms of employment.
I've seen contracts which stipulate that any concepts developed while employed with the company are the property of the company.
You need to be very careful about this. I've seen people quit a company so that they could pursue developing an idea/product, and the company was later able to identify that the initial concept was developed while the employee was still on their payroll ... hence, the idea was the property of the company.
A "new application" of an existing company product isn't a new product, but merely another way to capitalize upon the value of the product which the company already owns. This isn't even in a "grey area", it's still the company's product from the get-go.
If you have an employment contract, best to check the terms of employment.
I've seen contracts which stipulate that any concepts developed while employed with the company are the property of the company.
Oh geez... concepts you develop on your own time, without utilizing any company resources, done at home... that stands a snowball's chances in h*ll to be argued by the company. As an example, I am not in jail, nor been sued for doing it.
On the other hand, if you invent things on company time in the workplace, then they own it. (Bell Labs gave you a whole $1 for each patent you generated, which is fair, as it was on their nickel).
Taking intellectual property is a big no-no, however.
You need to be very careful about this. I've seen people quit a company so that they could pursue developing an idea/product, and the company was later able to identify that the initial concept was developed while the employee was still on their payroll ... hence, the idea was the property of the company.
One of the reasons for 'non-compete' clauses in employee contracts.
A "new application" of an existing company product isn't a new product, but merely another way to capitalize upon the value of the product which the company already owns. This isn't even in a "grey area", it's still the company's product from the get-go.
Umm... If you build toasters, and I design them for you, and I come up with a way to make popcorn on top of the toaster, on my own time, its mine. Slam dunk.
How many examples of the reverse-engineering of car control modules, so that people can re-program them, and now are public products, would you like me to give?
When moving from one company to another (engineering here), I don't disclose trade secrets/architectures from the previous company, as that would be unethical. But I DO take with me the knowledge and talent to build whatever widget I need to design for the new company. The only way to stop that is with the Klingon Mind Scanner.
Because your entire post is predicated upon your dreamland concepts of intellectual property rights and not actual contracts. The "snowballs chance in hell" of enforceability does exist and much to the dismay of somebody who pursued an independent development on their own time and resources, may still be the property of the employer.
There are employment contracts which specify that any product developed during the term of employment is the property of the employing company. In my experience, these are not rare or exceptional, but fairly common in several industries where intellectual property rights have a big presence in the business and manufacturing communities. For example, WA state which is home to several well known companines in that line of work.
I have seen these contracts in action, and much like the situations you describe where the development is unrelated or peripheral to the work product of the employer, nevertheless, the product created during the term of the employment is by contractual obligation the property of the company. Period. The terms of employment were mutually entered into by the parties and the employee should have been aware of these terms. Per the contract, the developer of the new product was eligible for compensation of a nominal amount of money and was so paid for their work product.
"non-compete" clauses are interpreted and enforced quite differently across the USA, depending upon state statutes. In any event, there must be a quid-pro-pro for a non-compete to be enforceable and the areas of what constitutes competition to the employer must be spelled out. I've seen contracts where the competition was very vague; ie, a manufacturer's engineering sales agent could not call upon any of their accounts developed during a term of employment for years afterwards even if they were selling an entirely different and non-competing product line.
While it may seem "right" or "fair" to you that an unrelated product development isn't the property of an employer ... even when developed on personal time away from the company, the FACT is that these types of contracts exist and are honored.
I've known a number of engineers in IT product lines, as well as in consumer audio, to have inventions totally unrelated to their employers work product ... and be caught up in these types of conflicts. In the states which had the jurisdiction in their cases, the ownership of their independent and unrelated work product was awarded to their employer per their employment contract. It was a "slam-dunk" for the former employer, as in one employer was able to gather testimony from the employee's friends and relatives about funding solicitations for the new product/company that the former employee was developing during the term of their employment, and that was enough to convince a judge that the employee had developed the new unrelated product during the term of their employment. Another employer was able to obtain through discovery the purchase records from wholesalers of raw goods needed to fabricate the new product that were purchased during the term of employment; again, easy for the former employer to document the time frame of the development of the new product by their employee and assert ownership of the patents per the employment contract.
SSparkle, you can conjure up all of the hypothetical examples that you care to ... the difference is, I know personally of these situations where valuable patent ideas and products ownership were subject to terms of employment contracts and the employers won. These range all the way to IT engineers developing board games which had nothing to do with their professional work product, but were a recreational pastime. Another developed a series of kites which became big sellers for a few years; ownership of the patent which was key to how these new kites worked went to the former employer. Yet another EE developed a hydrophyllic coating in his interest to make his racing sailboat go faster and the patent for the product was owned by the former employer ... it was a big deal product development because it had military applications which are now used worldwide in the shipping business. Yet another IT engineer I know developed a NSF Potable Water compliant epoxy based non-volatile coating material which was self-priming and spray appliable on contaminated surfaces and it's been a big seller in the maritime business; he had to leave the USA and set up shop applying/manufacturing this stuff in a middle eastern country that didn't worry about USA patents to be able to realize the profits from his product.
Because your entire post is predicated upon your dreamland concepts of intellectual property rights and not actual contracts. The "snowballs chance in hell" of enforceability does exist and much to the dismay of somebody who pursued an independent development on their own time and resources, may still be the property of the employer.
What do I know? I virtually had lawyers attached to my hip for a couple of years. Not for nickel-and-dime stuff.
There are employment contracts which specify that any product developed during the term of employment is the property of the employing company.
No person in his right mind would sign away rights to things developed on his/her own time. Run, don't walk.
I have seen these in action, and much like the situations you describe where the development is unrelated or peripheral to the work product of the employer, nevertheless, the product created during the term of the employment is by contractual obligation the property of the company. Period. The terms of employment were mutually entered into by the parties and the employee should have been aware of these terms.
Well, PT Barnum had it right...
Per the contract, the developer of the new product was eligible for compensation of a nominal amount of money and was so paid for their work product.
My employers could not have cared less, (and these were, umm, rather large companies) unless I went into their marketspace, where I did agree to a non-compete clause (only valid for 2 years).
"non-compete" clauses are interpreted and enforced quite differently across the USA, depending upon state statutes. In any event, there must be a quid-pro-pro for a non-compete to be enforceable and the areas of what constitutes competition to the employer must be spelled out. I've seen contracts where the competition was very vague; ie, a manufacturer's engineering sales agent could not call upon any of their accounts developed during a term of employment even if they were selling an entirely different and non-competing product line.
While it may seem "right" or "fair" to you that an unrelated product development isn't the property of an employer ... even when developed on personal time away from the company, the FACT is that these types of contracts exist and are honored.
And are only signed by fools.
I've known a number of engineers in IT product lines, as well as in consumer audio, to have inventions totally unrelated to their employers work product ... and be caught up in these types of conflicts. In the states which had the jurisdiction in their cases, the ownership of their independent and unrelated work product was awarded to their employer per their employment contract. It was a "slam-dunk" for the former employer, as in one employer was able to gather testimony from friends and relatives about the funding solicitations for the new product/company that the former employee was developing during the term of their employment, and that was enough to convince a judge that the employee had developed the new unrelated product during the term of their employment.
Sample size, examples, and publicly-available links, please.
Another employer was able to obtain through discovery the purchase records from wholesalers of raw goods needed to fabricate the new product that were purchased during the term of employment; again, easy for the former employer to document the time frame of the development of the new product by their employee and assert ownership of the patents per the employment contract.
Like you think I would have any of these things (patents, inventions, etc) in my own name? I was born at night, but not last night. Doesn't mean I do not have absolute control over all of them.
SSparkle, you can conjure up all of the hypothetical examples that you care to ... the difference is, I know personally of these situations where valuable patent ideas and products ownership were subject to terms of employment contracts and the employers won.
I am sure you can. On the flip side, we have been keeping the patent office really, really busy. Let's compare notes.
.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
