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"... the richest Americans have dramatically lowered their income tax burden since 1945, both absolutely and relative to the tax burdens of the middle income groups and the poor.
Historical tax rates for the highest and lowest income earners Consider two further points based on this graph: first, if the highest income earners today were required to pay the same rate that they paid for many years after 1945, the federal government would need far lower deficits to support the private economy through its current crisis; and second, those tax-the-rich years after 1945 experienced far lower unemployment and far faster economic growth than we have had for years."
Do you honestly believe bleeding people dry with insanely high confiscatory tax rates will help your state get out of debt? All it does is drive taxpayers out of your state and into more tax-friendly states. California is one of the most hostile states to business. Once you drive out all the taxpayers all you'll be left with are illegal aliens and no one to pay for all the social services they consume. You'll be sorry you voted 'D' all these years, but it will be too late.
Uh, don't you get it, they must prop up the status quo by any means neccessary. I mean, there is a huge system in place in Ca, the public workers. Yes, that is right, state/city employees will lash out at any attempts to "trim" the gravy train, that means kicking out any politician who is insane enough to try.
1. I'm not sure you can say what occurred after 1945 would repeat in 2011. Actually, I'm fairly sure you cannot assume that.
2. Income inequality means nothing by itself. I interpret your data to mean that the US presents some of the best opportunities to prosper, and that is why more people prosper. Unless you can point to some sort of unfair or "evil" reason for the income inequality, it only means some people are really successful in America and becoming more so over time. Or maybe it points to inadequate education amongst many that doesn't give new generations the tools to succeed. What are the specific reasons for income inequality? Unless they point to some sort of wrongdoing by the rich, don't let it reflect upon the rich. Russia is an example of the rich oppressing the poor. In Russia, there really is corruption on a grand scale. Ditto for Mexico. America is not a corrupt society that bleeds the wealth from its poor to make rich men richer. If you think it is, walk the dog for me and explain how this is happening. No charts please. Explain how Joe Smo living in some little town in Nebraska making minimum wage has been held back by a rich person.
For those who actually like charts and graphs, with all their wonderful colors and lines and shapes that are so delightful for both sides of the brain -- these should knock your socks off (even if you haven't taken a bong-hit yet today) ... best yet for the discussion ... and be sure to take note of the Income Inequaity By State Chart, in particular, 14th in the series linked, I believe, which places California in the 3rd (out of 6) most egregious category: Wealth And Inequality In America
The gap between the top 1% and everyone else hasn't been this bad since the Roaring Twenties
This chart shows average income of the top 1% as a multiple of average income of the bottom 90% (via The Nation). Click here for bigger chart
Of course the rich in America are getting richer off the middle and lower classes ... other than perhaps an independent miner hitting a gold streak on his claim, no individuals can produce anything of value to compare with the incomes derived through labor-less speculation. All currencies are fiat-money these days ... there is nothing backing any monetary system anymore except amorphic "faith" in the economic system -- which is controlled by the uber-wealthy. There is no actual productivity to equal or justify the phony money being made out of thin air by "investors / speculators" ... and this elite class is demanding that the middle-class and lower live with the burden of the budgetary cuts and stagnating income and lower opportunity of the day -- while they increase their proportion of the wealth exponentially and suffer nothing.
Person A earns $100,000 a year and pays $25,000 in taxes.
Person B earns $1,000,000 a year and pays $280,000 (at most).
Person C earns $10,000,000 a year and pays $2,800,000 (at most).
Person A has $75,000 left to live on.
Person B has $720,000 left to "scrape by with".
Person C has $7,200,000 left to "scrape by with".
Today's financial challenges call for sacrifices. So let's take it out of Person A's arse? Just how much does any person need to live a good life? Go back to those charts ... take a real good look at how it used to be apportioned ... see where the solutions lie today. If we took 50% of Person A's income, they'd have $50,000 left ... take 50% of Person B's earnings they'd still have $500,000 a year ... Person C at 50% would have $5,000,000 ... deprived? ... or lucky to be who they are in America?
Blood from a stone? ... or from the fatted cattle?
I don't give a damn about how it is in Russia or Mexico ... I care about America. This country is distinct and unique in history as it was born to be an egalitarian society. Egalitarianism has plenty of loopholes and limitations, as it turns out -- and pluralist reality rightly inserts itself. But there is an absolute need for balance. And when elitism runs amok, as it has since the late 70's / early 80's, it's past time to reassert the foundations of American ideals, philosophies and freedoms. You want to be one of the super-rich here? Help yourself -- but not to too damn much.
For those who actually like charts and graphs, with all their wonderful colors and lines and shapes that are so delightful for both sides of the brain -- these should knock your socks off (even if you haven't taken a bong-hit yet today) ... best yet for the discussion ... and be sure to take note of the Income Inequaity By State Chart, in particular, 14th in the series linked, I believe, which places California in the 3rd (out of 6) most egregious category: Wealth And Inequality In America
The gap between the top 1% and everyone else hasn't been this bad since the Roaring Twenties
This chart shows average income of the top 1% as a multiple of average income of the bottom 90% (via The Nation). Click here for bigger chart
Of course the rich in America are getting richer off the middle and lower classes ... other than perhaps an independent miner hitting a gold streak on his claim, no individuals can produce anything of value to compare with the incomes derived through labor-less speculation. All currencies are fiat-money these days ... there is nothing backing any monetary system anymore except amorphic "faith" in the economic system -- which is controlled by the uber-wealthy. There is no actual productivity to equal or justify the phony money being made out of thin air by "investors / speculators" ... and this elite class is demanding that the middle-class and lower live with the burden of the budgetary cuts and stagnating income and lower opportunity of the day -- while they increase their proportion of the wealth exponentially and suffer nothing.
Person A earns $100,000 a year and pays $25,000 in taxes.
Person B earns $1,000,000 a year and pays $280,000 (at most).
Person C earns $10,000,000 a year and pays $2,800,000 (at most).
Person A has $75,000 left to live on.
Person B has $720,000 left to "scrape by with".
Person C has $7,200,000 left to "scrape by with".
Today's financial challenges call for sacrifices. So let's take it out of Person A's arse? Just how much does any person need to live a good life? Go back to those charts ... take a real good look at how it used to be apportioned ... see where the solutions lie today. If we took 50% of Person A's income, they'd have $50,000 left ... take 50% of Person B's earnings they'd still have $500,000 a year ... Person C at 50% would have $5,000,000 ... deprived? ... or lucky to be who they are in America?
Blood from a stone? ... or from the fatted cattle?
I don't give a damn about how it is in Russia or Mexico ... I care about America. This country is distinct and unique in history as it was born to be an egalitarian society. Egalitarianism has plenty of loopholes and limitations, as it turns out -- and pluralist reality rightly inserts itself. But there is an absolute need for balance. And when elitism runs amok, as it has since the late 70's / early 80's, it's past time to reassert the foundations of American ideals, philosophies and freedoms. You want to be one of the super-rich here? Help yourself -- but not to too damn much.
Are you advocating that some shouldn't pay taxes at all?
Your timing couldn't be better as I spent most of last weekend pouring over tax tables trying to get a handle on my taxes.
There are other ways to strike it rich besides mining... look no further than uber wealthy entertainment and professional sports people and add to that a few inventors/patent holders.
Are you advocating that some shouldn't pay taxes at all?
Your timing couldn't be better as I spent most of last weekend pouring over tax tables trying to get a handle on my taxes.
There are other ways to strike it rich besides mining... look no further than uber wealthy entertainment and professional sports people and add to that a few inventors/patent holders.
No, not advocating a tax-holiday for anyone ... just an approach to taxation that draws from truly available and healthy resources what is necessary for a healthy, balanced society with opportunity -- while acknowledging and rewarding real contribution (providing actual value). Most of the wealth of our modern age is vapor ... manufactured out of thin air: speculation ... it provides nothing of substance to infrastructure, health, or essential pleasures. It is nothing more than sleight-of-hand illusion -- yet is wielded with the weight of a sledgehammer's force. There is no oil shortage on the market today -- but speculators are making billions (yes, billions) right at this moment playing on unsubstantiated fears. This drives prices that the middle and lower classes struggle to pay to fatten the wallets of the speculators ... where's the actual value? the productivity? Such is the environment of avarice we live in, and on, today.
I suppose it could be said that some entertainers (which includes pro-sports) provide "substance" of sorts ... entertainment is clearly a part of human social value. Inventors and Patent holders? Hmmm ... ponderable, depending on what they have created. In this vein, I have to qualify myself: as a minimalist there isn't much I think is required to improve life over some pretty basic "stuff". I am watching my 10-month-old grand-daughter as I type this ... she's having a whale of a great time with my hat ... I doubt a "virtual" hat game on a computer could make her any happier ... the cat is lying in the sun ... dog chewing a bone ... I will soon make soup from scratch ... how specialized does life need to be? How many gadgets need to own our time and finances before we have indentured ourselves to them?
What is considered a necessity by many or even most... are often things I can do without and live nicely to boot.
Never lived in a home with Cable TV and I don't have a cell. Rabbit ears and my $10 digital converter box provides more than enough. My Windows 98 is still plugging along... so life is good.
Neighbors were tossing out boxes of VHS tapes and a player... some have never been opened... when the kids come to visit... they enjoy looking through the boxes and finding something.
Car payments are another thing that is over-rated... so far I have never sold a car for less than I bought it for... there are so many dependable older cars out there for a song... I still have the $800 car I drove to school and it is still running well.
Some of the neighbors have remodeled their kitchens twice since I've known them... I guess it is great for the local economy... it's also good at filling up the local landfill.
Did you know you can get all the free paint you can use in a lifetime just for the asking at the local county drop-off site?
The list goes on and some of the wealthiest people I know live quite a frugal lifestyle... I'm not talking mega rich... just people that have no financial worries, live in nice homes and take care of business.
The receptionist at work had her $1200 Coach Purse stolen out of her $1000 Toyota the other day... I couldn't imagine wanting or even having something so expensive when I'm certain I could find a quality item for a few dollars.
It just bugs me to see that every year I see all that I pay in taxes, fees, licenses and more all the while having to listen that I'm not paying enough and hearing my State is broke...
Here's a graphic example of where a solution to our financial problems lies ... from CBS News this evening comes a report confirming how big money flows ... flows in sufficient quantity, in just the current false oil 'crisis' alone, to resolve our debt malaise, both national and state ... yet which solution goes untapped due to a culture of avarice and greed surpassing concern for nation and society ... the money is there ... it is moving around and around everyday, leveraging and leveraging, over and over, creating speculative wealth without foundation that enriches a tiny minority of individuals to outrageous extremes while leaving the rest to wonder where their wallets went as they try to fill their tanks so they can drive to work.
The report explains that there is no shortage of oil in the world at this time (the unrest in Libya being used as an excuse, even though Libya supplies only 2% of the world market, and that other producing nations have stepped up production to make up the difference) ... that, in fact, more oil is being drilled and captured and delivered every day than is being consumed ...
"So, why then are oil and gas prices soaring again? Sean Cota of the Petroleum Marketers Association of America said "it's unbridled investment money that is dominating the market, to the point where supply and demand doesn't matter anymore." Cota says pension and hedge funds have been pouring into the oil market, and bidding up the price. Last week, two-thirds of all oil traded was not sold by oil companies, but by investors. "The total world energy supply is bought and sold everyday about eight times," Cota added."
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