Big Pumpin': Gas Prices Shoot Up Over Past Two Days (Irvine: how much, cabinet)

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by user_id

Spike? No, but demand has been increasing globally. But the recent increase appears to be a supply problem:

Rising California gas prices expected to increase even more - San Jose Mercury News

Speculators play an even smaller role in the price of gas (vs oil)....

Ah. You meant global demand, not local demand. My bad.
Yes. As I said, poke around the refinery output issues to find the answer most likely. "Our" local gas is going to other buyers, specifically foreign buyers. And I should clarify that when I talk of speculators being in the works, I use the term speculators broadly to mean traders ... And not just here on Wall Street, or even at all limited to America. It's an international personality type ... Yes, they have always existed and the world turns as it does because of their gluttony. We wouldn't know what to do without them. But left to their own devices they are a cancer. Gotta be controlled at every turn.

They are at work here selling product by inserting themselves in the deal-making. They are like independent arms dealers supplying warring nations.

[SportyandMisty]

California is also susceptible to a refinery capacity shortage. None of us wants an oil refinery in our backyard, so no new refineries are being built here.

[jkbatca]

Here's an example of the differential between CA gas prices and other areas; pretty much CA is in a class on it's own.

The higher gas prices in CA is primarily due to AB32's Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS). Interestingly enough, it's LCFS lawsuit enforcement injunction was just lifted, interesting correlation to the recent jump in gas prices (which is NOT seen in any other state BTW).

BTW, the majority of Californians wanted AB32 (remember Prop 23 got shot down)? The majority of Californians asked for higher gas prices, they got it.

[Fontucky]

The majority of Californians also voted for that idiotic train.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

As I said, poke around the refinery output issues to find the answer most likely.

Sure, the government and the people that keep voting it in.

Anyhow, traders don't have weekly meetings where they all decide to act in unison. For every trader betting oil is going to increase, you have another doing the opposite. Now, whether certain large groups can manipulate the futures markets....well that is possible. But they are manipulating derivatives, not the spot prices which are determined by supply/demand. As I keep saying, there is a poor understanding of how swings in derivatives (speculators are buying derivatives, not actual oil) effect spot prices which should be, at least in principle, determined by supply/demand. There are some ideas on both sides, but no agreement.

But hey, blaming everything on speculators is a lot easier than facing the truth....

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

The majority of Californians also voted for that idiotic train.

Yeah, they should have supported more war efforts in the mid-east to further subsidize oil costs.

A train connecting two of the largest metro areas in the country.....something found in every other developed country. But naturally, in the US its idiotic....

[BlackShoe]

A quick check on GasBuddy a couple of minutes ago shows that things are not getting better, they are getting worse. Cheapest in my zipcode is $4.19, most of the Arco's are $4.25. A couple of weeks ago the price actually briefly dropped below four dollars, with a few stations at $3.99. That sure did not last long. To add insult to injury, a quick check of neighboring Arizona shows prices in Bullhead City at $3.63, a whopping 62 cents cheaper. A curse on every ^>@(+/* eco-freak greenie and cap-and-trade.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

A quick check on GasBuddy a couple of minutes ago shows that things are not getting better, they are getting worse. Cheapest in my zipcode is $4.19, most of the Arco's are $4.25. A couple of weeks ago the price actually briefly dropped below four dollars, with a few stations at $3.99. That sure did not last long. To add insult to injury, a quick check of neighboring Arizona shows prices in Bullhead City at $3.63, a whopping 62 cents cheaper. A curse on every ^>@(+/* eco-freak greenie and cap-and-trade.

Ah. Except they don't have a thing to do with prices spiking locally.

And, by all means, let's just continue to use cheap, non-renewable, grossly polluting energy -- because:
1) we are accustomed to doing so
2) we like the vroom-vroom power packed in every ounce!
3) we don't give a damn about anybody else

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

A quick check on GasBuddy a couple of minutes ago shows that things are not getting better, they are getting worse. Cheapest in my zipcode is $4.19, most of the Arco's are $4.25. A couple of weeks ago the price actually briefly dropped below four dollars, with a few stations at $3.99. That sure did not last long. To add insult to injury, a quick check of neighboring Arizona shows prices in Bullhead City at $3.63, a whopping 62 cents cheaper. A curse on every ^>@(+/* eco-freak greenie and cap-and-trade.

Nobel prize winning physicist Dr. Steven Chu said back in 2008:

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

President Obama liked this & appointed Dr. Chu to his cabinet to be Secretary of Energy. Dr. Chu, now part of the administration, says he has changed his view.

But clearly this administration has actions and has words. Actions speak louder than words.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by user_id

Government policy between 1930~1960 in the US did not do such, the financial system was a modest size and productivity gains in society were being well distributed throughout society.

No, its really not. You won't find any sort of agreement on this topic even if you just isolate your attention to liberal economists.

So, like I said, you want to blame speculators for everything but bad governmental policy is the real issue. I'm not really sure what you think speculators do, but there is nothing inherently bad about it. The problems arise from loose regulations, from policies that allow huge subsides, etc. But the financial system isn't unique in this regard, just look at our agriculture policy, our transportation policy, etc. Same junk, different industry.

Ummm, user, I wasn't referring to ancient history ... I was / am referring to policies since the Reagan - era at the furthest past. But, hey, as you say, you just go ahead and scrabble around for any excuse to create a fresh justification for more argument.

The funniest part of your response is that I mostly agree with you. Does that throw you off? Except the part about there being no understanding of what drives oil and gas prices. That is known. But keep huffing.

What speculators, investors, traders, do isn't inherently bad if you agree that the nature of the culture we live in is a good one. I do not. I do not have the slightest respect for people who make money by inserting themselves in other peoples' labors only at the level of leveraging and collecting middle-man fees. They are parasites without symbiotic labor. Talking on phones and kiting checks, making deals. No dirt under your fingernails, no breakfast as far as I'm concerned.

The financial system isn't unique in this regard. Correct. Except why differentiate the agricultural and transportation policies / systems? They, like everything else we do ARE arms of the financial system now.

But my questions for you are actually rhetorical, because you are not really interested in anything but practicing what you call Socratic method. Heh. That's a good one, user.