CA Unfunded Pensions Approach $1 Trillion (Irvine: student loan, homes, unemployment rate)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Malloric

Cal Grant is $11,000 a year, Pell Grant $5500 not that you'll get the max on either. My first year was full ride plus some between Pell and Cal Grant, then my mom got a raise and I was on loans. If your parents are making in excessive of 100k a year, then you'll likely be where I was. Hopefully they help out otherwise you've got loans to cover tuition. My parents gave me $3000 a year in support. Their rational? That's what two years at the JC and two years at UC would cost. As long as I was in school full-time I could stay at home rent free.

Sure, there are some grants, but the funding for these grants is limited and keeps shrinking and by no means do all students receive them.

Originally Posted by Malloric

You're talking about two years of loans, however, so about $30,000 if you have zero scholarships or grants. Payments should be around $300 a year, which is manageable.

The manageability of the loan depends on your income after graduation.... But my point had nothing to do with the manageability of student loans, rather to point out that these student loan payments exist because higher education hasn't been properly funded. That $300/month is essentially a tax on younger generations because older generations decided to lower their tax rates.

[RUOK?]

Texas has a much higher percent of people making BELOW the min. wage. Also, Texas leads the nation in the number of part-time jobs. Texas also has the highest percentage of people that don't have health insurance.

Yes, CA is in recession. However, much of this is because of conservative ideology. If you have austerity measures (which CA has implemented) as well as increase property taxes to get some revenue as well as re-invest in the university and school system (not in the prison system) CA will be a little better.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by RUOK?

Yes, CA is in recession. However, much of this is because of conservative ideology. If you have austerity measures (which CA has implemented) as well as increase property taxes to get some revenue as well as re-invest in the university and school system (not in the prison system) CA will be a little better.

Talk about making things up just for the sake of an argument, whew.

The alleged austerity measures never really happened. Not the right ones anyway.

[RUOK?]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

Talk about making things up just for the sake of an argument, whew.

The alleged austerity measures never really happened. Not the right ones anyway.

Sorry if I do research. You should try it.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by user_id

Well yes....college is voluntary. So what is the alternative? Dropping out? Will the long-term health of the nation improve if most college students drop out to avoid student debt?

The tuition at UCs is around $10,000 and year. How does a full time student afford $10,000/year, food, room, etc....while going to college? Cal states are cheaper, around $4,000~$5,000, but not all students can magically pack on their campuses and the total costs are still unaffordable without aid. And this is in California......a state with one of the best and largest public education systems in the nation.

I worked through school as did my group of friends.

[Malloric]

Originally Posted by user_id

Sure, there are some grants, but the funding for these grants is limited and keeps shrinking and by no means do all students receive them.



The manageability of the loan depends on your income after graduation.... But my point had nothing to do with the manageability of student loans, rather to point out that these student loan payments exist because higher education hasn't been properly funded. That $300/month is essentially a tax on younger generations because older generations decided to lower their tax rates.

Actually, everyone except for kids from the ~10-15% of earners, everyone gets those grants. It depends on family size, number of kids in college so it's not a simple cutoff, but it's around the top 10-15%. Other than that, the requirement is to get a 2.5 or 3.0.

Accessibility of loans is proper funding. You don't even need them if you're getting grants, but if you don't qualify for grants because your parents make too much and aren't willing to give you a free ride, they're there. Absolutely appropriate that those going on to higher education carry some of the costs. The higher tuition is a "tax" on students of well to do background. More often it's a tax on their parents who pay the tuition. No one I knew worked 20 hours a week and took out ~$25,000 in student loans. Less than half of my class of '08 had loans at all, average loans were about $10-12k for those who had loans, so ~$5k on average. That's total indebtedness, not per year. That's gone up, I think it's more like $14-16k now but still less than half take out loans at all. They either work to cover their cost of living or have parents that do. They either get grants that cover the cost of attendance or their parents do. It's the minority that even take out loans at all, and of those that do many take out loans solely so they don't have to work. It's not a bad idea... had I not been trying to work 20 hours a week plus carry 17-19 units in engineering, it may have gone better for me. All I know is my second year when I started taking actual engineering courses was miserable. I wasn't capable of taking the course load and working 20 hours, others are. Once I dropped and went to economics with a minor in statistics it was way more manageable.
For UC Irvine:

Financial Aid Applicants 15,791 (73.4%) of undergraduates
Found to Have Financial Need 13,305 (61.8%) of applicants
Received Financial Aid 12,913 (97.1%) of applicants with financial need
Need Fully Met 4,649 (36.0%) of aid recipients
Average Percent of Need Met 84%
Average Award $18,359
Need-Based Gift
Received by 12,207 (94.5%) of aid recipients, average amount $14,919
Need-Based Self-Help
Received by 8,716 (67.5%) of aid recipients, average amount $6,231
Merit-Based Gift
Received by 106 (.8%) of aid recipients
Merit-Based Gift Received by 595 (2.8%) of undergraduates without need, average amount $8,633

Average financial aid for the 62% of students who need aid was $14919. That fully covers tuition and books. Another chunk got work-study and a few got merit based support.

One of the major reasons the tuition is as high as it is is because the cash payer is helping paying for the financial aid for the need-based majority. For 2012-2013, return-to-aid (the percentage of tuition that goes to pay for financial aid programs). Most students will see no effect of the tuition increases since their aid will simply go up.

UC Regents discuss redirecting return-to-aid funds - The Daily Californian

The bigger concern is the drop in direct per student spending. In 2000 that was about $20,000 per student, in 2010 it had dropped to $15,000. They're saving money by relying more and more on graduate students to teach classes. At the CSU and community college level the cuts are really having an effect on the quality of education. The UCs had a lot of "fluff" they could cut without a huge impact where the CSUs and especially CCs did not. You can't even get into classes that aren't underwater basket weaving junk your first year at the CCs now. You have to have at least a semester and often a year to have a chance to get into the fundamental prereq classes like English, chemistry, calculus, biology, etc. The CSUs have cut summer classes and 2013 enrollment for the spring semester is frozen.

[analyze_this]

Originally Posted by user_id

We were discussing national policy, not raising babies. Certainly infrastructure was maintained (sorta....), but what great infrastructure projects were created by the boomers? Did they invest in alternative energy? nope. Did they invest in high speed rails? nope. Did they start any sort of major future oriented infrastructure project? Nope...

But by all means, tell me about these great projects that are going to increase the long-term health of the nation for younger generations. Now...I can tell you about a lot of disinvestment in public projects, a lot of reductions in higher education spending, etc.



Yes, they answered their call to society by consistently lowering their taxes year-after-year. They answered their call by willing themselves huge entitlement programs without properly funding them. They answered their call by indebting their children with student loans, etc because they cut the funding that put them through college.

Honestly, I'm actually surprised they didn't find a way to indebt their babies for changing their diapers.

The boomers systemically indebted their children in almost every way imaginable and that is why we have pensions systems with huge unfunded liabilities. Its not a California thing, its not a government thing....its a generational thing.

Completely agree 100%. The Boomers are the grediest, most selfish generation ever. They have systematically destroyed what the greatest generation achieved under FDR and have made zero investments in public transport, alternative energy, sustainable living, affordable healthcare etc. In addition, they have systematically offshored and continue to offshore all our jobs overseas.

I see no future in the country. I have plans to eventually relocate to a emerging BRIC country with a younger population and leave these old greedy boomers and others to rot and die alone and fend for themselves in Mad Max USA when sh1t hits the fan.

[Leonard64]

Originally Posted by analyze_this

Completely agree 100%. The Boomers are the grediest, most selfish generation ever. They have systematically destroyed what the greatest generation achieved under FDR and have made zero investments in public transport, alternative energy, sustainable living, affordable healthcare etc. In addition, they have systematically offshored and continue to offshore all our jobs overseas.

I see no future in the country. I have plans to eventually relocate to a emerging BRIC country with a younger population and leave these old greedy boomers and others to rot and die alone and fend for themselves in Mad Max USA when sh1t hits the fan.

And you will find lots of Boomers in such countries as they flee to escape the excesses and rabid control of the Socialists.

[analyze_this]

Originally Posted by Leonard64

And you will find lots of Boomers in such countries as they flee to escape the excesses and rabid control of the Socialists.

Ha ha good luck America is the least "socialist" of all countries.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Malloric

Actually, everyone except for kids from the ~10-15% of earners, everyone gets those grants.

Kids from the top 20% or so are far more likely to go to college than those in the bottom 80% and the amounts received vary.

Originally Posted by Malloric

You don't even need them if you're getting grants, but if you don't qualify for grants because your parents make too much and aren't willing to give you a free ride, they're there.

Yes you do, even if you received the maximum amounts they'd just cover tuition and books.

Originally Posted by Malloric

Average financial aid for the 62% of students who need aid was $14919. That fully covers tuition and books. Another chunk got work-study and a few got merit based support.

No idea where you are getting your information, but tuition and room/board at UCI is around $24,000/year. Financial aid applications are a combined application for both grants and student loans and and the amounts given are combined as well. Only 35% of students have their needs fully met, and again, that is a combination of grants and loans.

UC Irvine | University of California--Irvine | Best College | US News

Regardless, tuition keeps increasing, in fact its increased around 2~3 times over the last 10 years. Funding for grants keeps decreasing......and this is in one of the more generous states. Nationally the picture is much worse.

Furthermore, people like to speak as if everyone can pack into public universities. They can't...so looking at examples of single public universities that happen to be fairly generous doesn't tell you much about the overall picture. Its like pointing to a job opening and then claiming there isn't an unemployment problem...