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There are plenty of middle-class Latinos in California, as well as middle and upper class Asians. It's the whites who seem to have the biggest issues with California, I suspect.
The majority of Latinos is California and America for that matter legal/illegal are of lower class and education of any minority group. (fact)
So, your statement lacks a great deal of weight. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...in-u-dot-s-dot Hispanic Workers Show 80% Without College in U.S. Crisis
A wonderful bi-product of importing poverty. No problem w/ the liberal Immigration attitudes in America. With their balloning birth rates, America will soon reflect the countries they came from.
As for the Asians in Calif., specifically the valley... It is as such because they have cornered STEM jobs via abuse of H1B-visas (a product of the wealthy business owner further abusing your average American). Not to bother, multi-gen Americans have uprooted and created STEM hubs in other places in the U.S ... Austin and Raleigh, NC come to mind. Thus the inter-US immigration statistics of multi-gen Americans leaving the valley and migrating elsewhere.
Funny again, Sport. Here, coupla points to ponder:
1. You "can't help me"? Oh, I need your help? You smarter (and more valuable to society) than me?
2. Where did I say being a trauma sugeon isn't hard work? I said I know all kinds of hard workers.
3. Ever occur to you that maybe valuing some folks over others is a serious weakness in our society?
Looks to me here like you are a groupie for "the special ones" among us. I guess I can't help you if you don't see the problem with that. Women dying in childbirth? Diptheria? Polio? Oh the horrors of real life that spawn the depths of human compassion and art and love for one another! Easy for a dumb-ass bus driver to say huh. Sport, you have no idea apparently about the depth of common people. I have art degrees, for instance. But I actually love driving a bus and the amazing daily drama that goes with it. I speak and write in a vernacular too. Don't make me stupid. And yeah, the bag ladies and janitors who ride my bus are just as important to me as a surgeon. It's called egalitarianism. Big word for a bus driver. I been around. A lot.
The OP doc wanted "a better life" for his family and himself -- in California. Key word: "better". "Better" than other folks got -- because, well, he deserves it because he thinks he is more special. He thinks he works harder. He thinks some folks, like himself and his kids, deserve "better". So they can be separate from the riff-raff.
And he doesn't see any reason why he should pay a bit more in tax-rate to California for his preferred financial position. Like I say, if you don't see something wrong with that, I can't help you.
You're a hilarious character Mr.Enlightened Bus driver. It's funny how you literally attack anyone above a certain income level and demonize them as such and then go on to declare how they should willfully give their income away to others. You've been around alot and have heard a lot but you seem to miss how all the pieces of a society fit together or get the actual meaning behind things. In general, i have found most people on this forum and America have this problem which is why you resort to empty personal attacks instead of having intelligent discussions about a topic. The state of politics/policy in this country reflect the broad arrogantly misinformed populous.
From the age of information, we have entered into the age of the grossly misinformed. Confidence abound in knowing little to nothing.
"And yeah, the bag ladies and janitors who ride my bus are just as important to me as a surgeon."
Yeah, you would say something like this. I am wondering in all of your colorful experiences if you learned what supply/demand is and how they influence price.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 11-30-2012 at 02:18 PM..
Ralphkramden,
Glad you could see the humor. You are right, medical care is not necessary. We can return to the days of old when women routinely died during childbirth, children died from diphtheria and tetanus, paralyzed by polio, death by ruptured appendix, etc.etc. etc. It would help solve the population problem in California.
As far as hard work, I agree there are all kinds of people who work hard. That is not my point. As a society, in general, we value skill sets differently based on the the time/energy/ability ( both physical and mental) required to acquire those skill sets. I can't help you if you can't appreciate the difference between the time/energy/ability to become a decent bus driver versus a decent trauma surgeon. If society wants people to spend a decade or more to become trauma surgeons rather than bus drivers there has to be some sort of an incentive there to complete that task. If you don't think becoming a trauma surgeon is hard work, try shadowing one in training for a few days and nights. Now that is not to excuse him from paying his far share of taxes, but remember he is a scarce resource to society ( and you could argue that the supply is artificially restricted by the " doctor guild") and although we do not need to bow down to him, as a matter of good government, our political leaders need to consider the ramifications of the policies they devise on all of society. If tax policies drive a large number of good, highly skilled people from the state, that is not a good thing for the citizens of the state. I don't care if he is arrogant or not, if I rupture my spleen in a car wreck I hope he is around to help me. That is my point. I don't think we will know the effects of the state's latest tax policies for many years.
Don't waste your time here. Congratulations on your decision to move. I work in the STEM field and got the hell out earlier this year for the same reasons. I expected the tax measure to pass and started planning in late 2011 to exit. It's retro-active for 2012 so I held off on selling my investments until I left. I've been having a blast in my location. I have already grabbed some investment properties that have tenants in them as of the start of November. I am living in the heart of downtown for a 1/3rd of the cost I used to pay in boring Silicon Valley.. 1/6th of the cost of SanFrancisco. Have a social life and friends that actually have time to go out and enjoy life. Live in a place that has actual community/diversity and don't feel like I am a foreigner in my own country. Life has been excellent from the day I moved. I did a cross country trip as I transitioned and it reaffirmed my sentiment of the beauty/life outside of Calif. You're going to love Seattle. I just had a friend who moved out there to work at Amazon w/ his wife and little one.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,449,471 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
As an educated African American who left California for the very reasons as the OP, I whole-fully disagree.
Also, I most definitely spend a lot of time practice recreating. A luxury born out of having financial freedom.
Yes you have been missed
Too bad we can't ride our motorcycles through the mountain! Or meet up at the Anatolian Kitchen for some good food and wine!
Hope all is well and you are enjoying the sunshine
Especially your increased financial freedom due to no state income tax and overall lower taxes and COL.
I see Ralph's point a bit differently than you do. I don't think he is disparaging trauma surgeons at all. I think he's simply making the point that there are many people in society that make important contributions who are paid small fractions of what a trauma surgeon earns. Many of us believe that while physicians possess important skills needed by society that what they do is overrated. The odds of any one of us needing a trauma surgeon because of the event you just described are pretty low.
I don't worry about physicians or any other profession leaving an area. If they are truly as valuable as you believe they are, the market has a way of dealing with that. Hospitals will have to pay more to attract such surgeons. They will do so, and surgeons will overlook the tax situation in California or anywhere else and move to that state. On the other hand, if the OP is overestimating his importance, than a replacement will be found for him with no additional increase in salary or benefits and his leaving will be a zero sum proposition for the state in which he lives.
I think all of us tend to overestimate our own importance in the scheme of things. Its natural to do so since we all are born with an ego. There are also certain "glamour occupations" in any society. In America, being a physician is clearly a "glamour occupation". I saw a recent thread here on CDF in another forum that was entitled "lowering physician incomes". I don't agree with that premise, but would stood out to be was how many people wrote to say that doctors earning $200K, $300K, or even 500K was probably underpayment for what they do. I would say that if a large group of people feel that we that we have become pretty brainwashed in our society about the value of that one particular occupation.
I wish the OP well in his move to Seattle. He'll learn that there are plenty of problems there too. The state is a liberal democratic bastion as California appears to be. Taxes will probably go up there too. The climate is not as good either. Than there always issues related to job and workplace politics. He can't escape that no matter where he goes.
There are benefits and disadvantages to everywhere you live. There is no Shangri-La. There is no Nirvana. There is no "Garden of Eden" (at least today). You pay your money, you take your chance.
The interpretation is clear. He is doing everything he can to hopelessly attack the OP. While demonizing people who make above a certain income, he would like them to graciously stay and give their money to 'others'. As for your observation about how the OP will be replaced... Yes, he most certainly will be replaced.. And yes, given the absurdity that is Calif., they will have to pay the replacement more... Which leads to housing and other things being more.. which leads to min. wage and everyone's wages having to be higher.. which leads to higher costs... which leads to more social services to subsidies the lower end folks who can't afford it.. which leads to more taxes...
which leads to all of the 'extra' income being sucked dry+some.. The very thing the OP pointed out as to why he's moving. So, in this environment, who is moving in?
> Immigrants who have no knowledge of the broad U.S
> Immigrants who have no choice as to where they move in the U.S (H1b-visas/etc)
Who is moving out?
Multi-gen Americans
W/ less multi-gen Americans, who will want to live here? More immigrants ..
What does this do for social environment w/ no American culture counterbalancing strong foreign cultures?
The areas turn into offshoots of the countries the immigrants are from.. Making your average American feel even more out of place .. increasing the outflow ...
Further, given that income pressure is more at the high end than the low-end, a bigger gap will grow between the well-to-do in Calif. vs. the others.. Forcing even higher taxation in a sloppy/bureaucratic attempt to normalize economic 'standard of living'.. How effectively does that work out : http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalert...l-measure.html California's poverty rate highest in U.S. by new federal measure
Working out great wouldn't you say? The good news is that there are tons of other beautiful places in the U.S w/o this absurdity. The bad news is the broader U.S is following this idiotic trend.. Good news : there are tons of other beautiful places in the world when the time comes.
It's the large macro picture that escapes your average person as they are unable to put all the pieces together. Life goes on as they oft. retort... And such is the condition of their lives, just going w/ the flow dictated by others.. As the minority of other individuals in society chose the direction of the flow and the force they will exert to 'swim' in it. As for the tax idiocy going on, there are 100s of lessons to learn from : Millionaires' exodus: Two thirds of Britain's top earners 'deserted the UK' after 50p top tax rate was introduced | Mail Online
The number of people declaring incomes of more than £1m slumped from 16,000 to 6,000 after Gordon Brown introduced the new tax rules in 2010
The amount of tax paid by top earners fell from £13.4billion to £6.5billion as a result
Continue on w/ the idiocy. You're going to get exactly what you desire. God bless !
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 11-30-2012 at 02:22 PM..
Too bad we can't ride our motorcycles through the mountain! Or meet up at the Anatolian Kitchen for some good food and wine!
Hope all is well and you are enjoying the sunshine
Especially your increased financial freedom due to no state income tax and overall lower taxes and COL.
You bet I am ... As you know, I parted w/ my 600rr when I left. W/ the extra pennies lying around, I just recently :
Just hit 600 miles and will be cracking out the tools to do maintenance today. It's a lot more power .. and have to practice keeping the front tire on the road.. bwhahaha
I definitely miss our meetups and sad we never got to do that mountain ride before I left. I'll let you know when I am back in town for visits ! ^_^
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 11-30-2012 at 02:26 PM..
Yes. But can they get pie? I heard they can. I think it was Glenn Beck said so.
And, while we are on the subject of pie: can a family of four, legals, who qualify for the lavish welfare lifestyle, also get pie on top of that $725 monthly windfall?
Pie is nutritious. I would think the government would support it over the free cheese program.
Funny, a New Yorker who only hangs out in the California forum. Not like I don't believe that you're actually a bus driver living in New York or anything......
Funny, a New Yorker who only hangs out in the California forum. Not like I don't believe that you're actually a bus driver living in New York or anything......
Funny. I see: North Dakota, Tennesse, Missouri, New Mexico, Arkansas, Oregon, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, among other places repeatedly here. In fact, I even seen other New Yorkers.
Here's the thing, cousin: if I want to talk to other New Yorkers I got 8 million of them right outside my bus. I spent a number of terrific years in California when I was in the military. Pretty much the only other place in the world that interests me besides my home town.
You all are pretty funny. Specially on this forum. Why? Because you got yourselves a (terrific) blue state. But this forum is infested with chronically complainer, conservatives. I suspect that highnlite fella is right: most of California is out and about enjoying life in the state. Best I can do is visit vicariously. But this crap most of you post here is gonna get real boring in a real hurry.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,449,471 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
You bet I am ... As you know, I parted w/ my 600rr when I left. W/ the extra pennies lying around, I just recently :
Just hit 600 miles and will be cracking out the tools to do maintenance today. It's a lot more power .. and have to practice keeping the front tire on the road.. bwhahaha
I definitely miss our meetups and sad we never got to do that mountain ride before I left. I'll let you know when I am back in town for visits ! ^_^
Sweet!
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Cheers mate
