Yes on Proposition 19 (Los Angeles: sale, attorney, college)

[kinesis]

If you have any questions, concerns, or even fears about this initiative, I am here to educate you prior to your vote. Please feel free to post on this thread or send me a PM.

[californio sur]

This must be the hundredth thread on Prop 19. Personally I agree with legalizing marijuana but the polls suggest that it will lose. If you are in favor of Prop 19 how will you convince others to vote yes?

[kinesis]

The polls are highly inaccurate and biased - done by media giants such as LA Times. Young voter turnout is what will drive this to passage. LA Times has boardmembers tied to the Hearst corporation (the same corporation that fought alongside Harry J Anslinger in the early days of prohibition - see Oppose Prop 19 Intro to learn more). They have been spitting lies and slander in a desperate attempt to stop it's passage. Are we really to believe that Proposition 19's majority support plummeted ten points for no apparent reason, out of the blue?
>> If you are in favor of Prop 19 how will you convince others to vote yes?
Because common sense indicates to me, and many others once enlightened, that this is sound policy for our nation and youth. As it stands, a child rapist and murderer can get financial aid - but your children, if caught selling pot, would be banned from receiving financial aid.
In addition, cannabis is regulated to a black market. Molds, toxins, fungicides, etc are on this unregulated product. The drug dealers that sell this to your children do not check ID, at the same time - they also sell cocaine.

For children, the prohibition and black market status of cannabis makes it more than easy to get pot. Easier than alcohol. By passing 19 and putting cannabis in the hands of businesses that check ID, we are doing what is right for our children. In addition, this is the shot heard around the world that will lead to other states liberating this harmless and extremely beneficial herb for society. Aside from countless medicinal uses, it has many uses for fabrics, textiles, rope, fuel, food, and more. For all you Christians out there, refer to Genesis chapter 1 verse 29. It says all plants bearing seed were given to mankind for sustenance. The moralist argument is thereby trumped, the save the kids argument is thereby trumped. That leaves one more lie that the opposition has put forward - Public safety workers getting high. This is expressly prohibited by Proposition 19. Although Proposition 19 gives rights to employees to not be harassed by their employers for using a substance that causes less accidents than alcohol, it specifically exempts public safety workers (police, firefighters, bus drivers, teachers, etc) from consuming cannabis on and/or off their jobs.

A few more lies exist: Oh don't vote, because the fed will overturn it. Wrong. Proposition 19 unlike the Arizona Illegal Immigration Law, is not unconstitutional. It cannot be overturned.

Basically we are giving jobs and business opportunities to a cash strapped state. We are taking it away from the drug companies, the paper/fabric companies, the police, the DA, etc and giving the industry to the people that deserve it. Cannabis is a $14 billion dollar consumable product, and a huge industry for California with much growth opportunity. Everything from cosmetics to toilet paper can be made from hemp. People can have the choice to go to a bar and get lifted rather than get wasted and trashed. I, for one, dream of perhaps starting my own company in this industry, and have started investing in dot coms and considering various business plans. I want to either start a grow room business or a pot website, nothing particularly involving sales, maybe just marketing. For the jobless and hurting, the prospect of a legal and regulated cannabis industry just cannot be ignored.

Prop 19 is about seeing past the ignorance. It's about live and let live. There are still many narrow minded and ignorant people (although a slim few) that call us dopers, idiots, etc. I see some of us as very progressive, entrepreneurial, and enlightened. They need to wake up and not be scared to research and investigate this for themselves. If a book as simple as the Bible says it's part of mankind, then it should be. Plain and simple. This isn't just about the right to ingest an anti-carcinogenic substance, a substance that DEA Judge Francis L Young has said is the most safest therapeutically active substance known to man, it's about progress. Ending the police state, liberating the people to better days. The only reason cannabis has a negative and derogatory connotation with dopers and drug addicts is because of the work of one man - the first prohibitionist Harry J Anslinger, the man who started the Federal Bureau of Narcotics also known as the DEA today.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by kinesis

A few more lies exist: Oh don't vote, because the fed will overturn it. Wrong. Proposition 19 unlike the Arizona Illegal Immigration Law, is not unconstitutional. It cannot be overturned.

I've heard ridiculous statements like that so often, combining wishing and a lack of understanding of the law and the Constitution.

California can drop the penalties against pot and can quit enforcing federal laws against pot, but the federal government is fully within its legal exercise of powers to enforce and prosecute federal anti-marijuana laws in the state of California, with federal resources and federal officers.

In Arizona the state wanted to start doing something (checking ID of suspected illegals) but that was ruled unconstitutional because the state would actively discriminate against people merely because they looked like they might be illegals. California wants to stop doing something (enforcing laws against pot) and they can quit doing that if the proposition passes, but the only things that would prevent the federal government from starting to enforce the laws (federal laws) would be cost or practicality of using federal resources, or perhaps they might just decide to not enforcement, or most likely would enforce it only in high profile cases.

Even if the proposition passes you gotta be smoking pot to believe that the federal government will stand by and let California start collecting taxes for production and sale of pot. The tax records alone would be sufficient legal evidence for the feds to begin prosecuting, and they'd start out right with the biggest retailers.

The best the proposition can do even if it passes is to start a national discussion about decriminalizing marijuana in the entire country.

[kinesis]

Exactly, it's a stepping stone towards rational progress. In Texas, afaik, there is a medical marijuana patient from California facing a life sentence for possession of 3 grams of hashish. LIFE for a plant extract. Is that fair? This plant is less dangerous than alcohol, and is only portrayed as a monster to society by large corporations that bankroll dollars to our politicians. Let's give it to the people and engage in the separation of greed and state. To prohibit a God given herb (as spoken in the Bible earlier) from our human race over the profits of large corporations, is just murderously stupid, selfish, and wrong.

I predict less of a war under Obama, he seems more likely to cater to the will of his people than that of large corporations like Bush was. Bush led an all out war on medical marijuana throughout his presidency. Obama seems to tolerate it. I really think Holder is just doing his job, he is suppose to be outspoken on this issue, it's the law. He only went forward with his press speech when several ex DEA leaders came to him saying "Come on Holder! Do something!". I expect his response to be somewhat passive aggressive. The Obama Administration isn't as much as a corporate warrior as The Bush Administration was.

[californio sur]

I agree that there has been a full-court press by the federal government, just about every elected official [both Democrats and Republicans] including the governor, city mayors, police chiefs\ county sheriffs, the association of California Alcoholic Beverage sellers even California marijuana growers trying to convince voters to vote No on Prop 19. It is not an accident the the federal drug czar has been speaking all over the state to groups and the federal attorney general has warned voters that the feds will get a court injunction to stop prop 19 if it is approved by the voters.

I think they are all serious and the message is getting out to the voters to not legalize something that the federal government will not allow. On the other hand, there are people strongly endorsing Prop 19 and here in LA several actors, former police chiefs and even the former governor of New Mexico have been holding press conferences urging yes on Prop 19. Unless the college students vote en masse I don't think Prop 19 will pass. Also, I don't really think that the LA Times and USC are intentionally lying about the poll results.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by californio sur

... the federal attorney general has warned voters that the feds will get a court injunction to stop prop 19 if it is approved by the voters.

I hope the proposition will pass, not because I think it will make marijuana legal but rather because only after the proposition passes will we be able to begin a constructive conversation about just exactly how and when it could become legal. The start of that talk would be once the feds get their injunction or start sending federal officers to make arrests.

[kinesis]

Also the problem is that Cooley currently runs the lead for California Attorney General. If Prop 19 doesn't pass - kiss your medical marijuana rights goodbye. Cooley is just like Bush, he will run raids and not issue a favorable SB420 statement. If 19 passes, we don't have to worry as much about this Cooley Nazi Cop Thug. Sadly, his opponent supports gay marriage, which gives her very little chance of beating him (I take no position on this issue, just stating the facts)! So you can pretty much bet your britches he's going to get elected...

[kinesis]

the federal attorney general has warned voters that the feds will get a court injunction to stop prop 19 if it is approved by the voters.

They can warn all they want, but Proposition 19, just like Proposition 215 - is not unconstitutional by any means. States are delegated the rights to pass their own drug laws.

As they say in Texas - the Fed is "All hat and No Cattle" on this issue. The AZ issue was found unconstitutional because the Federal government is in control of immigration laws, somehow it violated the supremacy clause.

If the Fed had a chance of stopping cannabis proliferation and industrialization, they would have sued to stop Proposition 215 over a decade ago when voters passed it in 1996. Especially under President Bush. Proposition 19, is very similar to Proposition 215, in the fact it is an initiative that modifies drug laws for our state.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by kinesis

Also the problem is that Cooley currently runs the lead for California Attorney General. If Prop 19 doesn't pass - kiss your medical marijuana rights goodbye. Cooley is just like Bush, he will run raids and not issue a favorable SB420 statement. If 19 passes, we don't have to worry as much about this Cooley Nazi Cop Thug. Sadly, his opponent supports gay marriage, which gives her very little chance of beating him (I take no position on this issue, just stating the facts)! So you can pretty much bet your britches he's going to get elected...

Keep in mind that even the Democratic candidate for state attorney general, Kalama Harris is against Prop 19. Cooley wouldn't shut down anything; he certainly has stopped the huge number of marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles. Hey, I support Prop 19 but even if the LA Times is fudging the numbers of those opposed to legalization if the voters think it is a lost cause many will not even bother to vote. Sad but true.