Public Employee Unions want to change Prop. 13 so busness property tax goes up & up more every year. (low income, for sale)

[honobob]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

According to this, the median home price in CA in 1978 was $70,890. When prices continued to rise in the mid to late 1970s, people's property taxes continued to rise annually until they became unaffordable for many.
http://www.realestateabc.com/graphs/calmedian.htm

$35,000 was the 1975 value it was rolled back to. Your chart shows 1974 value at $34,000 and the tax date is a year behind so the roll back would have been closer to 1974 values. Thanks for the chart. Notice how much the $7,000 homemakers deduction was as a fraction of value compared to now.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by honobob

$35,000 was the 1975 value it was rolled back to. Your chart shows 1974 value at $34,000 and the tax date is a year behind so the roll back would have been closer to 1974 values. Thanks for the chart. Notice how much the $7,000 homemakers deduction was as a fraction of value compared to now.

And this points out how easy it would have been to provide modest homeowner relief... the Homeowner Property Tax Exemption was very meaningful... it applied to those with mansions and to those with efficiency cottages...

All Sacramento had to do was index it for inflation... homeowners of modest means would have meaningful relief... those of wealth would still have the same relief... just not significant.

Going back a when a modest home cost 10 to 15k... the Homeowner exemption was a lifeline...

Today.. that exemption will just buy a tank of fuel for my work truck...

Also important to note the Prop tax rate was among the highest in the country in many California cities back in the mid 70's... some nearing 3%...

The rollback provision was crucial because Assessors were piling on assessments to get them in just in case tax reform passed... having a rollback nullified that.

Looking around my little corner of California there is no end to vacant commercial space... the local Mall has storefront after storefront vacant for years...

The industrial section is full of empty warehouse space...

Major employers continue to relocate away from California... and some want to selectively single out/punish those that remain by changing existing tax law of nearly 40 years???

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by honobob

$35,000 was the 1975 value it was rolled back to.

Not clear on why you are focusing on this. The value of each property was rolled back to its 1975 assessed value to compute property taxes.

Your chart shows 1974 value at $34,000 and the tax date is a year behind so the roll back would have been closer to 1974 values.

Are we reading the same chart? It says $41,600 was the median value in 1975 (but I don't know why this is relevant other than you pointing out to that poster that there probably were few million dollar homes back then). Prop 13 rolled back locally assessed property values to 1975 lien date original base-year value, effective with the 1978-79 fiscal year.

In 1977, the average property tax rate in California was 2.67 percent.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

In 1977, the average property tax rate in California was 2.67 percent.

THIS is why Prop 13 passed in a landslide...

[honobob]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Prop 13 IS tax relief for owner occupied homes.

(You can move to Illinois. My aunt and uncle pay over $20,000 annually on property taxes on their home.)

Prop 13 is tax relief for ALL properties!! Even the income producing ones. Voters were tricked into giving dollars to businesses and the rich while maybe collecting pennies.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by honobob

Prop 13 is tax relief for ALL properties!! Even the income producing ones. Voters were tricked into giving dollars to businesses and the rich while maybe collecting pennies.

There was no trick... under the California Constitution business property cannot be discriminated against...

News stories of the day were full of fear mongering... saying Chevron, Ford, GM and Union 76 would enjoy the same benefits as home owners... our then and current Governor said if Prop 13 passes...no distinction can be made. The thing is NEVER did the politicians ever think Prop 13 had a chance and ridiculed it at every opportunity.

Well... almost 40 years later and it is still here and enjoys vast popular support too!

The real question is why are some so bent on punishing California business?

Income is taxed, goods and services exchanged, people employed... the more profit a company earns... the greater the tax liability.

Follow the money and the story referenced in the First Post is written for a lobbyist working for those that feed off Property Tax dollars... it's not rocket science...

If business or being in business is so advantageous... Open a Business for gosh sakes.

[honobob]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

There was no trick... under the California Constitution business property cannot be discriminated against...

News stories of the day were full of fear mongering... saying Chevron, Ford, GM and Union 76 would enjoy the same benefits as home owners... no distinction can be made.

Income is taxed, goods and services exchanged, people employed.

The real question is why are some so bent on punishing California business?

Follow the money and the story referenced in the First Post is written for a lobbyist working for those that feed off Property Tax dollars... it's not rocket science...

If business or being in business is so advantageous... Open a Business for gosh sakes.

I can't afford to open a business because PROP 13 punishes new business owners. I can't sell my goods or services at a higher price just because I pay two, three, four times more in property taxes than my competitor does BECAUSE the taxpayers are subsidizing their taxes.

Business get lots of benefits to stay in CA. You could read up on the Twitter deal in SF!

You agreed that all that was needed to help Grandma was to index the homeowners exemption and that is my whole argument. Pro 13 was a sham. Prop 13 helps the rich and business community way more than the lower and middle class.

Where are a lot of businesses moving to, Texas? Take a look at their tax rates.

[honobob]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Not clear on why you are focusing on this. The value of each property was rolled back to its 1975 assessed value to compute property taxes.



Are we reading the same chart? It says $41,600 was the median value in 1975 (but I don't know why this is relevant other than you pointing out to that poster that there probably were few million dollar homes back then). Prop 13 rolled back locally assessed property values to 1975 lien date original base-year value, effective with the 1978-79 fiscal year.

In 1977, the average property tax rate in California was 2.67 percent.

My point was that the lein date in 1975 was March 1 so values would only reflect sales up to that point and the median value of properties was ore likely closer the 1974 value in you chart since it would not include sales in ten of the 1975 year.

And yes it was mainly in response to the $1,000,000 1975 OR 1978 home.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by honobob

I can't afford to open a business because PROP 13 punishes new business owners. I can't sell my goods or services at a higher price just because I pay two, three, four times more in property taxes than my competitor does BECAUSE the taxpayers are subsidizing their taxes.

Business get lots of benefits to stay in CA. You could read up on the Twitter deal in SF!

You agreed that all that was needed to help Grandma was to index the homeowners exemption and that is my whole argument. Pro 13 was a sham. Prop 13 helps the rich and business community way more than the lower and middle class.

Where are a lot of businesses moving to, Texas? Take a look at their tax rates.

I would imagine no State Income Tax could be one reason plus many areas of Texas do not have zoning or even building codes that dictate what you can and cannot do.

I did and do agree a meaningful Homeowner Exemption could have prevented Prop 13...

My point is that even something so simple was beyond the ability of Sacramento...

Age has proved Sacramento never misses an opportunity to tax and all I can say is thank goodness we have Prop 13.

As to opening a business... there has been a surge of new business licenses across California... most business is small business... the tree trimmer, the house painter, the trades are booming once again... so are professional services like bookkeeping and internet services...

Opening a business today can be as simple as an Internet Presence or a one many sewer roto-rooter guy with a truck...

Prop 13 helps everyone by providing stability and it especially helps property owners by adding predictability to property taxation...

I happen to think we need more business so why would I want to punish them?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by honobob

I can't afford to open a business because PROP 13 punishes new business owners. I can't sell my goods or services at a higher price just because I pay two, three, four times more in property taxes than my competitor does BECAUSE the taxpayers are subsidizing their taxes.

Business get lots of benefits to stay in CA. You could read up on the Twitter deal in SF!

You agreed that all that was needed to help Grandma was to index the homeowners exemption and that is my whole argument. Pro 13 was a sham. Prop 13 helps the rich and business community way more than the lower and middle class.

Where are a lot of businesses moving to, Texas? Take a look at their tax rates.

Prop13 has nothing to do with opening a business. It applies to buying and owning land or building, etc.

Anyone can open a business without buying. Just rent as I did in the beginning. Now I own 2 CA Corporations and land in CA. I was not rich and struggled by working two jobs to get it going.

Anyone with a bit of intelligence and effort can open a busines. Now running one does take a bit more intelligence. In CA the biggest hinderance to running a business, is not Prop 13, it is ridiculous regulations. Even Business taxes are not bad. Regulations are a nightmare however.