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I think we could annually increase commercial property tax (based on appraisal) subject to a cap of 3-4% a year. But, if nothing else this kind of outrageous cheating needs to addressed through legislation: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjr.../#37d3bb883c5f
Not sure why staggering numbers of people would leave California to open a small business in Nevada, Nevada has a very high small business failure rate. Commercial Property tax can increase by 7% a year
I think we could annually increase commercial property tax (based on appraisal) subject to a cap of 3-4% a year. But, if nothing else this kind of outrageous cheating needs to addressed through legislation: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjr.../#37d3bb883c5f
I worked as a manufacturing engineer in San Leandro CA and was a member of the local association...
Across the board companies that made things like orthopedic items to industrial finishers like chrome platers all left California... even Prescott lighting and another company that made specialty automotive pistons left... Not a one went out of business or closed up shop... they relocated out of California.
Wellmade metal products, Standard metal products... heck... even Toyota left taking 5,000 union jobs.
There must be a reason they all left.
In-law was plant superintendent for the large Antioch Paper Mill... at one time the plant had 3,000 workers and the plant, even at the worst of times never made less than a million a month on profit...
Plant still closed as the regulatory climate worsened with each passing year... the plant operators said the hand writing was on the wall... and this was a plant that had the first private PGE co-generation steam turbine power plant and had many awards...
Didn't matter... even the million a month profit in the worst of times was not enough to make the plant worthwhile...
Posco is another... the steel plant in Pittsburg that made rolled steel with a large customer being the Toyota plant in Fremont...
Pacific Oxygen Gas plants closed up and moved operations...
It is easier to establish yourself outside California and freight things in....
The list is staggering... as to the products we made here that are still being made... but no longer in California.
Of course others went off shore but the ones I mention simply left California
The 'Runner is right again! The People's Republic of California is taxing its citizens into leaving, it's taxing business into leaving. The only thing is that California is so desirable that putting a ding in it is as difficult as trying to dig a hole in the ocean.
You make houses more expensive, people will sell and leave, other people will pay more for the houses and the cycle will continue. Nothing short of the Big One will put a ding in residential properties, or maybe a major recession/depression (not likely).
Business is different. There can be no doubt that businesses are leaving CA faster than new businesses move in or start up. CA is not business friendly.
CA is really not anything friendly speaking about the government. If it weren't for this being one of the most desirable places in the nation all we'd have in CA is illegal aliens mowing each others' lawns and cooking each others' hamburgers. The only thing we'll be making in CA is babies.
Ultimately most of the jobs left could be mainly in the service industry and government employees. You can't base a state's economy on that but that is at least the direction we are headed.
The only way out is for our government to go on a spending diet. If they don't then the increase in everything associated with the cost of living is going UP.
The 'Runner is right again! The People's Republic of California is taxing its citizens into leaving, it's taxing business into leaving. The only thing is that California is so desirable that putting a ding in it is as difficult as trying to dig a hole in the ocean.
You make houses more expensive, people will sell and leave, other people will pay more for the houses and the cycle will continue. Nothing short of the Big One will put a ding in residential properties, or maybe a major recession/depression (not likely).
Business is different. There can be no doubt that businesses are leaving CA faster than new businesses move in or start up. CA is not business friendly.
CA is really not anything friendly speaking about the government. If it weren't for this being one of the most desirable places in the nation all we'd have in CA is illegal aliens mowing each others' lawns and cooking each others' hamburgers. The only thing we'll be making in CA is babies.
Ultimately most of the jobs left could be mainly in the service industry and government employees. You can't base a state's economy on that but that is at least the direction we are headed.
The only way out is for our government to go on a spending diet. If they don't then the increase in everything associated with the cost of living is going UP.
Actually new business starts are far more than those leaving. However those leaving are generally well established companies with more employees than the start ups and .. make more money than the start ups which generally are small business. Manufacturing in CA is getting harder and harder to justify and I know as I own one there. The "number" of business is not the issue, leaving , coming or starting, it is the total value and number of employees that are important. 300 new gardeners is not the same as 30 businesses with 100 employees each.
I worked as a manufacturing engineer in San Leandro CA and was a member of the local association...
Across the board companies that made things like orthopedic items to industrial finishers like chrome platers all left California... even Prescott lighting and another company that made specialty automotive pistons left... Not a one went out of business or closed up shop... they relocated out of California.
Wellmade metal products, Standard metal products... heck... even Toyota left taking 5,000 union jobs.
There must be a reason they all left.
In-law was plant superintendent for the large Antioch Paper Mill... at one time the plant had 3,000 workers and the plant, even at the worst of times never made less than a million a month on profit...
Plant still closed as the regulatory climate worsened with each passing year... the plant operators said the hand writing was on the wall... and this was a plant that had the first private PGE co-generation steam turbine power plant and had many awards...
Didn't matter... even the million a month profit in the worst of times was not enough to make the plant worthwhile...
Posco is another... the steel plant in Pittsburg that made rolled steel with a large customer being the Toyota plant in Fremont...
Pacific Oxygen Gas plants closed up and moved operations...
It is easier to establish yourself outside California and freight things in....
The list is staggering... as to the products we made here that are still being made... but no longer in California.
Of course others went off shore but the ones I mention simply left California
Ok, in your post you were talking about your friends moving their 'small businesses to Nevada', and I stated that small business failures are very high in Nevada, I stand by that.
But now you are talking about major manufacturing industries. I grew up in the bay area and I'm familiar with a number of the businesses you listed, and as far as I know Gaylord Paper mill closed because according to the owners "the market is flooded with paper" When did POSCO close, their website shows that they are still open. Most manufacturers, not only in California, but across the country have gone out of business because of outsourcing or automation. My dad worked in a dynamite factory in Point Pinole, California regulations didn't put him out work, DOW chemical bought the plant and decided to only do explosive manufacture in their Delaware plant. Pullman shops in Richmond closed in 1959, not because of regulation but because there was not enough demand for rebuilding and maintaining passenger cars for trains.
I am sure that some businesses have left California because of 'regulations', but for the most part it looks like the noisiest complainers are high polluting industries. It's clear that mines and fracking operations prefer Nevada because there is not much regulation of pollutants, but does that mean we should adopt that philosophy as well? I certainly would not want that to happen
Not too long ago Gateway Pundit, Breitbart, Zero Hedge and the rest of 'those' websites ran articles about how Nestle was moving out of California because of all the dastardly regulation and taxes, but if that's the case, why did they make this public statement: Chocolate maker Nestle is moving its U.S. headquarters from California to Virginia, relocating to a part of the country where the company says it has more customers.
The 'Runner is right again! The People's Republic of California is taxing its citizens into leaving, it's taxing business into leaving. The only thing is that California is so desirable that putting a ding in it is as difficult as trying to dig a hole in the ocean.
You make houses more expensive, people will sell and leave, other people will pay more for the houses and the cycle will continue. Nothing short of the Big One will put a ding in residential properties, or maybe a major recession/depression (not likely).
Business is different. There can be no doubt that businesses are leaving CA faster than new businesses move in or start up. CA is not business friendly.
CA is really not anything friendly speaking about the government. If it weren't for this being one of the most desirable places in the nation all we'd have in CA is illegal aliens mowing each others' lawns and cooking each others' hamburgers. The only thing we'll be making in CA is babies.
Ultimately most of the jobs left could be mainly in the service industry and government employees. You can't base a state's economy on that but that is at least the direction we are headed.
The only way out is for our government to go on a spending diet. If they don't then the increase in everything associated with the cost of living is going UP.
Really?
"California has spawned new businesses at one of the fastest rates in the nation over the last decade, and faster than the U.S. economy overall, the report found. The state is also a leader in job creation tied to those new businesses: In 2013, California added jobs from newly established businesses faster than all but four other states."California cranks out new businesses and jobs despite criticism - LA Times
"For some perspective, the two million jobs created in California accounts for about one-sixth of the nation’s net 12.4 million jobs added during the same period, according to U.S. Bureau of Labor statistics.
It’s also roughly 600,000 more jobs than Texas added during the same period, the federal labor data show. Texas officials, including former Gov. Rick Perry, have made repeated efforts to siphon jobs away from the Golden State."Brown speaks the truth about California's job growth | PolitiFact California
Actually new business starts are far more than those leaving. However those leaving are generally well established companies with more employees than the start ups and .. make more money than the start ups which generally are small business. Manufacturing in CA is getting harder and harder to justify and I know as I own one there. The "number" of business is not the issue, leaving , coming or starting, it is the total value and number of employees that are important. 300 new gardeners is not the same as 30 businesses with 100 employees each.
I stand corrected. You are better informed than I.
I just get the feeling that the quality of businesses in CA is declining due to over-regulation and over-taxation. I know for sure a lot of businesses are leaving for more business friendly states, but I admit I know nothing about businesses starting up in CA. -- I'm curious if any businesses are moving into CA from other states: I bet that's an interesting question.
And just to be fair to me I would have been more accurate to use the term "jobs" not "businesses." Both matter but you can't have an economy if you don't have consumers, and people who don't have jobs are not consumers except for any government aid they get.
Ok, in your post you were talking about your friends moving their 'small businesses to Nevada', and I stated that small business failures are very high in Nevada, I stand by that.
But now you are talking about major manufacturing industries. I grew up in the bay area and I'm familiar with a number of the businesses you listed, and as far as I know Gaylord Paper mill closed because according to the owners "the market is flooded with paper" When did POSCO close, their website shows that they are still open. Most manufacturers, not only in California, but across the country have gone out of business because of outsourcing or automation. My dad worked in a dynamite factory in Point Pinole, California regulations didn't put him out work, DOW chemical bought the plant and decided to only do explosive manufacture in their Delaware plant. Pullman shops in Richmond closed in 1959, not because of regulation but because there was not enough demand for rebuilding and maintaining passenger cars for trains.
I am sure that some businesses have left California because of 'regulations', but for the most part it looks like the noisiest complainers are high polluting industries. It's clear that mines and fracking operations prefer Nevada because there is not much regulation of pollutants, but does that mean we should adopt that philosophy as well? I certainly would not want that to happen
Not too long ago Gateway Pundit, Breitbart, Zero Hedge and the rest of 'those' websites ran articles about how Nestle was moving out of California because of all the dastardly regulation and taxes, but if that's the case, why did they make this public statement: Chocolate maker Nestle is moving its U.S. headquarters from California to Virginia, relocating to a part of the country where the company says it has more customers.
Gaylord never lost money... not a single negative month.
It is true the capacity could be made up by other mills outside California...
The plant has been closed and dismantled for years... I was there on the last day it was producing... the regulations of just maintaining the water front property with a deep water dock are almost a full time job for regulatory compliance and filings... and then there is a section of the industrial site with a protected plant... amazing that such an industrial location can have a endangered plant found almost no where else... sure sounds like the mill is why the plant survived.
I've been around a longtime... remember when Oakland was called the Detroit of the West... home of Peterbilt now Foothill Square, Chevrolet now Eastmont Mall, GM Durant distribution center now a bazaar... plus the west coast headquarters for General Electric and Safeway and Longs
San Leandro/Oakland/Berkeley/Richmond were home to many manufacturers big and small... canneries, salt works to the South, Printers, Kellogs, Caterpillar, etc... all these companies still exist but not in California with the Bay Area Sea Ports, Rail and Airports etc...
When Gaylord closed there was hardly a peep... virtually nothing... when NUMMI closed not much either except how Toyota was paying severance and job assistance... Toyota didn't cut back production... they moved it to Texas and Canada... Gaylord didn't cut back production... they shifted it out of California... Tesla isn't building a new battery plant in California... it is going out of state.
By the way... NUMMI had tried to expand for years on property it owned at the factory... it was fought tooth and nail with the final blow a family of burrowing owls killing expansion.
The huge Milpitas Ford Plant was quite a sight... Ford F series was the plant's bread and butter and F series is still the top selling vehicle in America almost always... people didn't stop buying F series...
Gaylord never lost money... not a single negative month.
It is true the capacity could be made up by other mills outside California...
The plant has been closed and dismantled for years... I was there on the last day it was producing... the regulations of just maintaining the water front property with a deep water dock are almost a full time job for regulatory compliance and filings... and then there is a section of the industrial site with a protected plant... amazing that such an industrial location can have a endangered plant found almost no where else... sure sounds like the mill is why the plant survived.
I've been around a longtime... remember when Oakland was called the Detroit of the West... home of Peterbilt now Foothill Square, Chevrolet now Eastmont Mall, GM Durant distribution center now a bazaar... plus the west coast headquarters for General Electric and Safeway and Longs
San Leandro/Oakland/Berkeley/Richmond were home to many manufacturers big and small... canneries, salt works to the South, Printers, Kellogs, Caterpillar, etc... all these companies still exist but not in California with the Bay Area Sea Ports, Rail and Airports etc...
When Gaylord closed there was hardly a peep... virtually nothing... when NUMMI closed not much either except how Toyota was paying severance and job assistance... Toyota didn't cut back production... they moved it to Texas and Canada... Gaylord didn't cut back production... they shifted it out of California... Tesla isn't building a new battery plant in California... it is going out of state.
By the way... NUMMI had tried to expand for years on property it owned at the factory... it was fought tooth and nail with the final blow a family of burrowing owls killing expansion.
The huge Milpitas Ford Plant was quite a sight... Ford F series was the plant's bread and butter and F series is still the top selling vehicle in America almost always... people didn't stop buying F series...
I remember all of that...what I don't remember is these plants leaving the bay area because of "strangling regulations and taxes" and I think if you drill down and look at each of these businesses and why they left, you will end up agreeing with me.
Regarding Tesla, they opened their battery plant in Nevada for one reason, Nevada gave them 1.3 billion dollars, far in excess of California's bid of 500 million. And please don't use regulations as a reason they went to Nevada because California had already written legislation changing and/or eliminating the regulations that Tesla was concerned with. Inside Elon Musk's $1.4 billion score
NUMMI is more involved than a fight over burrowing owls:
"In June of 2009, GM announced that NUMMI would not be part of the new, post-Chapter 11 General Motors. GM unceremoniously pulled out of the NUMMI partnership and stuck Toyota with the tab. faced with its own excess manufacturing capacity during an unprecedented downturn, Toyota couldn't run NUMMI profitably on its own. Two months after GM pulled the plug, Toyota announced plans to shutter the plant. But before it did, it ran the mammoth facility at a loss for nine months and solely funded a $281 million severance package for the plant's 4,700 employees."Blame GM, Not Toyota, for NUMMI Plant Closure - CBS News
I don't want to go back 60 years and argue every plant closure in the Bay Area, it's pointless...I'm sure some left because of 'regulations and/or taxes' but I don't think that's why most of them left because at the same time they were closing in California they were closing everywhere in the US, I know this because I had grandparents, uncles and cousins working in those plants and they talked about why they were closing.
No matter how you break it down it almost always comes down to this.
Cost of doing business covers just about everything... if Nevada wants to give Tesla a windfall it reduces Tesla's cost...
If the city or Las Vegas wants to build a new Raider's stadium and not even charge $1 rent annually it reflects a lower cost of doing business...
NO ONE can claim the Raiders don't have a loyal fan base... but the grass is greener in Nevada... how is that for an oxymoron....
Still, no matter what the reason... plants closed in California with production going out of state...
The ironic thing is most of my examples were lost union jobs... seems the only strong Unions today are in the Goverment Sector.
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