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I have a few friends here in Colorado that moved from the Central Valley, one from the Modesto area, one from Fresno and two from Visalia / Hanford. And they all universally proclaim that it sucks. Here's my thought, though.
If you transplanted any of these cities --with their warm climates, proximity to enormous mountains, sunshine-drenched summers, low housing costs, access to fresh food, and (in the cases of some CV cities, i.e. Sac, Lodi, Fresno, etc.) diversity-- to another state, they'd be prime destinations. But, since they're part of the "appalachia of the west," and, in California, you've got SD, LA, SLO, SF, SJ, Monterey, etc., to choose from, they get described by California natives as just horrible. And I'm not trying to downplay the crime and poverty, but the low education rates seem like, in this day and age when half of everyone born after 1990 has a B.A. in something, you'd actually have a leg up on the job competition moving to one of those cities.
Am I wrong in my interpretation that this is a solid area waiting for enough people to realize its virtues? Or is it really just that terrible?
The San Joaquin Valley (Stockton to Bakersfield) is not "under the radar" or underrated, IMO. First of all, the housing prices need to be put in the national context. The flipside of the idea you and others have espoused that SJV cities "only look bad in comparison" to the coastal cities, is that the housing prices in SJV only look good in comparison to the same cities. In the national context, housing prices in the SJV are about average. Zillow data shows the average recent sales price of a house in the US is $225k; whereas the average sales prices in Stockton, Fresno and Modesto are $224,800, $202,850, and $231,785.
In comparison to other cities across the country with average housing prices, I'd say what you get in the SJV is below par in most respects. First, your notion that "the low education rates seem like... you'd actually have a leg up on the job competition moving to one of those cities," is exactly backward. The reason there are relatively few highly educated in SJV cities is because there are relatively few jobs that utilize their skills, and pay what they could expect to earn in other cities (even relative to housing costs). You would also be stunting your professional network by moving to such a city. Educated people flock to cities with lots of other educated people for a reason.
The SJV has extremely polluted air. The top four cities in the country for short-term and year-round particle pollution are Fresno, Bakersfield, Visalia and Modesto. The same four cities fill the # 2, 3, 4 and 8 spots for ozone pollution (topped only by Los Angeles). Link. There is also significant pesticide usage all over the SJV, being a center of agribusiness.
Weather is subjective, but I wouldn't say SJV weather is above average, even by national standards. Many people are willing to accept a few days of snow in December and January in order to avoid relentless 110-degree heat waves in July and August. And unlike Sacramento or cities in the desert, the SJV has humidity from all the agricultural irrigation so it doesn't cool down as much at night (I was shocked to wake up to an 85-degree morning at 6am in Reedley one July visit). Winters bring Thule Fog. My cousin moved from Visalia to Ohio and is overall happier with the year-round mix of weather in Ohio.
The SJV is close to the Sierras and the coasts, but still 2-3 hours away. There are other cities all over the western US with similar housing prices that have good recreational opportunities within 2-3 hours, or even closer.
Finally, in the SJV you are still subject to California's income tax structure, which is among the most punishing in the country for upper-middle class incomes.
As a Fresno native...I could see some places having eventual potential.
A big problem is the social scene and number of young professionals is severely lacking...so it is difficult for the city to invest in culture. A lot of stuff is just getting started. I've lived in a few other places and Fresno will always be home-but it has been a real struggle socially in times i have been back.
As a Fresno native...I could see some places having eventual potential.
A big problem is the social scene and number of young professionals is severely lacking...so it is difficult for the city to invest in culture. A lot of stuff is just getting started. I've lived in a few other places and Fresno will always be home-but it has been a real struggle socially in times i have been back.
Exactly, I am a young professional in Turlock and I feel like I'm a demographic leper. I don't have kids, I like to go out in the evening, and everything closes at 9PM. I feel socially stunted by moving here
The OP mentioned higher education as an asset in the CV - it is and it isn't. When people ask me what I do and I say "college professor," they appear to have a great amount of respect for my job and the students here definitely look up to me, so that is nice. However, people outside of education treat you as an outsider because a PhD is so far out in the stratosphere that I'm like an alien life form to them. The more education you have, the less likely you are to find someone with whom you can relate. This can really affect your quality of life. I've lived in cities where most have at least a master's and the vibe just doesn't compare.
If those idiots on the coast want to pay 1mil plus for a 2000 sqft house or smaller who am I to argue.
I live the salad days in a 3500sqft Craftsman Revival currently that was built in 1922 on a 1/4acre several streets down from a Ivy Leaque type private college. I run my contracting business out my house. The edge of Delta is a 5min walk from my house. I can be on the water in 20min. 10min drive to the Marina and 10min to launch.
The crest of the Sierra is 100miles one way and the Beach 90miles the other.
When I want to enjoy the pleasures of big city life( which isn't often anymore) I can drop 1k on the wife on a nice weekend in The City, Sac, Reno, Tahoe or Wine Countryand it's not even a blip in my budget. My backyard is an extension of my kitchen and common living areas and most evenings and mornings throughout the year you can find the family out here. I'm typing on my outdoor easy chair from Costco enjoying a whisky and cigar.
In about five years I'll reach critical mass with my retirement investments( all the money I socked away not living on the coast). And I'll still be in the fifth decade of life.
I have access to the greatest variety of freshest food anywhere in the world.
Yeah the Valley sucks. Please stay away.
I can guess where you live. I have an aunt who lived in your neighborhood for many years. It is indeed a great neighborhood.
Although yes, the Central Valley (I live in Tulare-square in the heart of it) does suffer from many problems (what place doesn't have something wrong with it?) such as poor air, weak economy, and the like, all of that needs to placed into proper context. You have to understand that most of the rest of the country has never even heard of the San Joaquin Valley much less knows anything about it.
To be honest, the reason the Valley gets "put down" as much as it does is because it's the rest of the State that seems to take delight in belittling it every chance it gets, apparently just for the sheer sadistic fun of it. It seems like the denizens of both the LA and Bay Areas have extraordinarily stilted opinions of themselves and love to not only elevate themselves, but take delight in pushing down the Valley too. You can read all about it here and elsewhere. The folks of Orange County and San Diego and the far north though seem pretty indifferent to us. It's San Francisco and Los Angeles that love to pick on us just for the sport of it. They love to remind anyone who will listen-sometimes without even asking-that the central Valley is an abscess on the map, that it's a stain, an embarrassment, something to be kept at bay and under their thumb. But then when you ask them "should the Central Valley secede and form their own state like they want?"
And the answer is always invariably "hell no! We must keep this great state of ours intact!"
Needless to say, this really speaks more to the pompous and megalomaniac attitudes and beliefs held by the city dwellers than it does about how "bad" the Valley is. So it's important to understand that if you want some honest perspectives, don't take your advice from someone who's only experience here has been limited to 'just passing through' on I-5 or Hwy 99.
Now that said. Yes, although I like the Valley as a whole, I am dismayed at some things like the lack of community, the sometimes horrendous air, the prevailing Good ol' Boy business and political climate that just can't see that they are partly to blame for the States woefully catastrophic mismanagement of our water. And even though yes, the Valley is close to-but not actually at-anything really scenic or noteworthy. Unless you are at the foothills/fringe areas, it's a minimum hour drive to see just about anything.
I wouldn't mind seeing my little neck of the woods transplanted to-say Eastern Colorado or Nebraska.
Minus the smog.
Here are two views of the same location in Tulare looking towards the mountains. One on a clear day. the other, a not so clear day.
And here's a picture of how the farmers aren't exactly the 'oppressed under appreciated heroes' they want you to think they are.
The hubris displayed here pretty much speaks for itself.
Also, taken in Tulare.
Ascute as this photo is I have to say it is sort of like that senator who threw a snowball on the floor arguing against global warming
Years ago, I mapped vegetation up and down the state, seeing some wonderful places. I never minded the valley. Sure it is hot in July and August, but has a certain agrarian charm too. Driving through the orchards and vineyards, with here and there a river or canal, and wonderful fragrances in spring. It has a character all its own.
I think a lot of the trashing on the Central Valley is because folks on the Coast moved from somewhere back east, and the Coast or cities were their destinations. Rich liberals from the Northeast in many cases. These are the same people who claim anywhere that gets below freezing or above 90 F has a horrible climate. That is ridiculous. Truth is, most places off the immediate coast vary more than that, and people manage to build good lives in such places. For example, Sacramento does not have worse summers than most of the eastern half of the country, and much milder winters. And it you love snow, it is close by in abundance. Personally, I like the seasonality of interior California more than the coast, which I find pretty boring.
The fact that there is still no Central Valley subforum is another obvious example of how people in and out of the state view the valley. The takeover of the valley by farmers and farmworkers, neither of which are wealthy ex-Brahmin easterners has alienated the coastal folks who consider themselves superior. It does not warrant recognition as a real area of the state, and for that matter, the country. With the rise of UC Merced and the general emergence of the Hispanic voting block, I think this is set to change. California never was simply rich coastal liberals, but you sometimes would think that based on the Hollywood, Bay Area, and Silicon Valley stereotypes. It's interior areas are going to be coming into their own in the coming decades, as they should.
I think the OP has a sensible view. The Central Valley is a diamond in the rough, with great potential.
I agree with that last paragraph there. With so many new houses and neighborhoods currently being built there, more people are moving there, I'm guessing a lot from the Silicon Valley.
Years ago, I mapped vegetation up and down the state, seeing some wonderful places. I never minded the valley. Sure it is hot in July and August, but has a certain agrarian charm too. Driving through the orchards and vineyards, with here and there a river or canal, and wonderful fragrances in spring. It has a character all its own.
I think a lot of the trashing on the Central Valley is because folks on the Coast moved from somewhere back east, and the Coast or cities were their destinations. Rich liberals from the Northeast in many cases. These are the same people who claim anywhere that gets below freezing or above 90 F has a horrible climate. That is ridiculous. Truth is, most places off the immediate coast vary more than that, and people manage to build good lives in such places. For example, Sacramento does not have worse summers than most of the eastern half of the country, and much milder winters. And it you love snow, it is close by in abundance. Personally, I like the seasonality of interior California more than the coast, which I find pretty boring.
The fact that there is still no Central Valley subforum is another obvious example of how people in and out of the state view the valley. The takeover of the valley by farmers and farmworkers, neither of which are wealthy ex-Brahmin easterners has alienated the coastal folks who consider themselves superior. It does not warrant recognition as a real area of the state, and for that matter, the country. With the rise of UC Merced and the general emergence of the Hispanic voting block, I think this is set to change. California never was simply rich coastal liberals, but you sometimes would think that based on the Hollywood, Bay Area, and Silicon Valley stereotypes. It's interior areas are going to be coming into their own in the coming decades, as they should.
I think the OP has a sensible view. The Central Valley is a diamond in the rough, with great potential.
I agree with that last paragraph there. With so many new houses and neighborhoods currently being built there, more people are moving there, I'm guessing a lot from the Silicon Valley.
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