How are you voting on Prop 12 (farm animals) ?

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by likealady

I think I read somewhere that the Humane Society supports it but PETA doesn't. I like the idea of our farm animals living happier lives prior to becoming our food so I'm voting yes.

There is something warped and yet funny about that comment. I love it :

[davidt1]

Originally Posted by artillery77

Voting no.



This proposition presupposes the right way to handle things which is the first mistake. If there's safety concerns, this is an issue for regulators, not a proposition.



The second is there's going to be no way of actively enforcing this measure with any fairness or consistency. The government now has to hire workers to go out and measure spaces where feeder pigs roam? Don't wear your good shoes.


Better to have a set of requirements in order to be a California Blue Label meat or something like that as opposed to trying to set minimums to allow for sales. Interstate commerce laws could also apply.

While we vote differently, I have to say I like your thinking. You don't sound like one of those people who need third rate newspapers like The LA Time to make decisions for them.

[JGC97]

It's strange that PETA isn't promoting this Measure. Even if it doesn't go far enough for them, the old saying about a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush .... or something like that. You just can't please everyone. <sigh>

[artillery77]

Originally Posted by davidt1

While we vote differently, I have to say I like your thinking. You don't sound like one of those people who need third rate newspapers like The LA Time to make decisions for them.

I appreciate that, thank you. I also appreciate your vote and taking time to read on other viewpoints.



Every time I drive by Cow****z on I-5 I can't help but shake my head in disgust, so I definitely understand where the bill is coming from, but I believe that's a feedlot. As in, they're not there very long. I could be wrong. I hope most people don't think that is what the average farm is. Of course, the average farm is also not some hillbilly with 40 acres and a bunch of run-down buildings that always seems to have time to get on the news...



I grew up in farm country, so getting my input on the matter from an editor in Los Angeles...well, that just seems silly. In reality, most of the farms I worked with had variable sized herds generally based upon the price of meat vs crops. I also grew up near one of the world's largest slaughterhouses. All I can say is good luck in determining which hotdogs can and cannot be sold in California if this passes.



Luckily for us all, any farmer with animals know their animals can get stressed. Also, any farmer wants to reduce that stress. It's not just decency, but profitability. A stressed dairy cow will stop producing, for example. What stresses them differs though. Stress from space is very different between sheep, cows, pigs and chickens. Other than allowing people to feel better about themselves, there's not really any basis to realistically think this proposition will make the lives of animals any better.



Yet, we're still going to make this law. It will force local farmers to spend money on something that doesn't help anyone, making them less competitive vs imported meats we realistically have no control over.



Hence the Blue-Label style approach. Look at how successful Kosher has been in getting premium pricing for a premium and ethical treatment of animals. This would allow farmers an opportunity to prove that they've taken the steps to certify ethical treatment and have a premium product that can be sold here in California. This is better than requiring a California official to go Iowa. This actually would create an opportunity for local farmers to raise California meats at a Blue-Label standard.



Basically, we're going the wrong way if we're looking to establish a mercantilism standard. If we're just looking to bash farmers because we don't like people eating meat or they vote to Republican...then the law works wonderfully. Also, chickens are dominated by 4 companies. The farmers in that industry have almost no power. Done right, this could help them. Done wrong...it just pushes production to ever larger producers only.



Still, I'm glad you looked at it. We need people to vote.