Prop 13 (megatopic) (Oakland: renting, unemployment, to buy)

[Pyramidsurf]

Originally Posted by Des-Lab

The problem with this statement is that it's complete and total petulant BS.

First of all, nobody is owed or deserves anything.

You're right. Nobody is owed or deserves to get tax breaks if the population passes something saying otherwise. You're not entitled to Prop 13 if the state repeals it.

Period.

Get that through your skull. Home state or not, no matter how bad you want "it", if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You have no right to try and take it.

Second, will this same purported outrage still be there when todays buyers are still paying 10k when tomorrows will be paying 20k? That day WILL come.

And third, if you have a problem with the 1k vs 10k gap, why not lobby for everyone's to be lowered to 1, as opposed to forcing the 1k-ers to pony up an add'l 9?

-I already own a house in a very expensive area. I'm not trying to take anything.

-I didn't say everyone should pay 10K
-I'm sure the outrage is coming

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf

Stopped reading right about here.

Apparently you like to just make up data points out of thin air. Median household income in 1990 was 33K. Median household now is 70K. Your idea that undergrads 3-4 years out of college make 130K is laughable.

I didn't say it was rosy.

And if you think millennials have it easy then go ahead. We've been at war for 18 years now so spare me. The older generation was in the right place at the right time to benefit from Prop 13. I'm not entitled. I own a house. I just think Prop 13 is ridiculous.

Not going to chime in on the Prop 13 discussion you two are having ... but, as a Vietnam vet, retired from military career, I would point out that 18 years of war has been brutal on our troops with multiple deployments ... HOWEVER, this is an all volunteer force, today. 100% of forces are there because they chose to be there. What TR95 was pointing to was the draft effect on those earlier war generations.

[wac_432]

Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf

Well, do you expect young people and residents to sit around and get pushed out of their home state because Prop 13 is punishing those starting out to support those who bought 30 years ago? Be serious. Eventually people are going to get fed up having to pay 10K in taxes when their neighbor who inherited a house pays 1K.

Prop 13 has nothing to do with it. Do away with Prop 13 and you have higher rents and better-paid public employees. That's it. No one is going to lower property taxes below 1% or appreciably cut sales/gas taxes or fees. Higher property taxes are not going to make houses more affordable.

It is expensive to live here. If you can't hack it, you're going to have to spread your little wings and fly away to a better job or cheaper COL area. Or live in mommy and daddy's basement until they die. Then you can move upstairs in your late-40/50's having anchored your poor parents in place, preventing them from selling their property and enjoying their golden years.

I fully agree that Millennials got the crap end of the bargain. The boomers and Xers grabbed up the fattest slices of the pie, and the following generation has had to make do with the crumbs. The Boomers and X'ers got rich, enjoyed good affordable health care, didn't have to fight in any enormous world wars, and are now healthy and wealthy, failing to die/get sick/retire because they want their 4 oldmobiles, boat, vacation house, Napa trips, etc.

The really rich Boomers and Xers join "conservation societies", "save agricultural/open space societies" and the like, which make it their mission to hamstring construction of low-cost, high-density housing in desirable areas in the name of environmentalism, water conservation, traffic, and general stay-off-my-lawn-ism. This has the benefit, to all those who already got theirs, of keeping rents and property values artificially high.

Oh, and yes, the Chinese (and other rich transplants from Flyover country, Europe, South America, etc.) all are grabby-grabby as well, putting extra pressure on the housing market.

The only silver lining is that, during the coming recession/depression, the highly-compensated Boomers and Xers (who aren't ABSOLUTELY essential to the core fucntioning of their companies) are going to be the first on the chopping block while buisnesses desperately cut costs to try to stay viable. So hold on, all you Millennials. Polish your credentials, save your pennies, kill some luxury goods like golf and mid-level resturants, stay lean, show that you're effective workers, and be ready to snap up the coming tidal wave of bank-owned properties, when you kept your job by virtue of your cheap[er] salary. Your day is coming, but it is not today.

And don't kill Prop 13. You're going to need it.

[Pyramidsurf]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Not going to chime in on the Prop 13 discussion you two are having ... but, as a Vietnam vet, retired from military career, I would point out that 18 years of war has been brutal on our troops with multiple deployments ... HOWEVER, this is an all volunteer force, today. 100% of forces are there because they chose to be there. What TR95 was pointing to was the draft effect on those earlier war generations.

I'm well aware of that. I didn't bring it up and frankly don't care. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who served, did what, or who had it harder. Each generation deals with their own set of problems.

However, the fact is Prop 13 benefits those who bought closest to its enactment. That's the nature of it.

[Pyramidsurf]

Originally Posted by wac_432

Prop 13 has nothing to do with it. Do away with Prop 13 and you have higher rents and better-paid public employees. That's it. No one is going to lower property taxes below 1% or appreciably cut sales/gas taxes or fees. Higher property taxes are not going to make houses more affordable.

It is expensive to live here. If you can't hack it, you're going to have to spread your little wings and fly away to a better job or cheaper COL area. Or live in mommy and daddy's basement until they die. Then you can move upstairs in your late-40/50's having anchored your poor parents in place, preventing them from selling their property and enjoying their golden years.

I fully agree that Millennials got the crap end of the bargain. The boomers and Xers grabbed up the fattest slices of the pie, and the following generation has had to make do with the crumbs. The Boomers and X'ers got rich, enjoyed good affordable health care, didn't have to fight in any enormous world wars, and are now healthy and wealthy, failing to die/get sick/retire because they want their 4 oldmobiles, boat, vacation house, Napa trips, etc.

The really rich Boomers and Xers join "conservation societies", "save agricultural/open space societies" and the like, which make it their mission to hamstring construction of low-cost, high-density housing in desirable areas in the name of environmentalism, water conservation, traffic, and general stay-off-my-lawn-ism. This has the benefit, to all those who already got theirs, of keeping rents and property values artificially high.

Oh, and yes, the Chinese (and other rich transplants from Flyover country, Europe, South America, etc.) all are grabby-grabby as well, putting extra pressure on the housing market.

The only silver lining is that, during the coming recession/depression, the highly-compensated Boomers and Xers (who aren't ABSOLUTELY essential to the core fucntioning of their companies) are going to be the first on the chopping block while buisnesses desperately cut costs to try to stay viable. So hold on, all you Millennials. Polish your credentials, save your pennies, kill some luxury goods like golf and mid-level resturants, stay lean, show that you're effective workers, and be ready to snap up the coming tidal wave of bank-owned properties, when you kept your job by virtue of your cheap[er] salary. Your day is coming, but it is not today.

And don't kill Prop 13. You're going to need it.

All I'm saying is Prop 13 is a rip off. I don't have a better solution though since God knows California politicians will not lower taxes if it is repealed.

[payutenyodagimas]

just move to Texas or Arizona or Idaho.

go where you can afford.

we are immigrants and it never occurred to me that to be able to afford a house, the law or the govt must do something.

we just worked and saved

as one immigrant priest said in his sermon: the opportunity is already there..u just need to work for it

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by expatCA

The current law, prop 13 is a good law.

We're talking about Prop 58 and 193, not Prop 13. (This thread actually should be re-titled.)

Exclusions from Reappraisal – Frequently Asked Questions – Board of Equalization

Originally Posted by expatCA

The idea of taking a child's inheritance and increasing the tax on it, is not something I am concerned about at this point. It is simply one of many signs of the State taking tax/fee money anyway from people it can and showing no real concern for the people it takes the money from.

"No concern for the people it takes the money from"? Those people have inherited a huge asset.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf

I'm well aware of that. I didn't bring it up and frankly don't care. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who served, did what, or who had it harder. Each generation deals with their own set of problems.

However, the fact is Prop 13 benefits those who bought closest to its enactment. That's the nature of it.

Pretty sure that was TR95’s point.

And, of course you don’t care ... lol.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by DougStark

I agree. Set a reasonable prop tax rate (like 1%) for everyone. As Prop 13 is now, it's "I was here first!!" and to hell with the rest of you.

That IS the property tax rate under Prop 13. Do some reading.

[BumbleBeeHunter]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The homeowner doesn't pay for reassessment, that's the job of the local tax authority. And no one is talking about reassessment if they stay in the house, only if they rent it out.

oh thank you sleepy