The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Montclair, Auburn: school districts, gated)

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The No side single handedly introduced into this dialogue the words HATE, BIGOTRY and INTOLERANCE and hence have showed themselves for who they really are.

Why else do you insist on preventing 2 grown consenting adults from getting married and having the same rights as everyone else in California?

If you are not intolerant to their lifestyle and bigoted towards them then why are you opposed to their getting married? Hate is an emotion and many yes on 8 people have expressed -hate towards those of us who want to give everyone a chance to LOVE.


Considering No on 8 is about:

TOLERANCE
a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration ...
FAIRNESS.
a: marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with.....
and LOVE
a (1): strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child> (2): attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3): affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates>

If you are against these things mentioned above, then the opposite is Hate, Bigotry and Intolerance. It's just the english language you are mad at. Not the NO on 8-ers.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Taboo2

Why else do you insist on preventing 2 grown consenting adults from getting married and having the same rights as everyone else in California?

If you are not intolerant to their lifestyle and bigoted towards them then why are you opposed to their getting married? Hate is an emotion and many yes on 8 people have expressed -hate towards those of us who want to give everyone a chance to LOVE.


Considering No on 8 is about:

TOLERANCE
a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration ...
FAIRNESS.
a: marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with.....
and LOVE
a (1): strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child> (2): attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3): affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates>

If you are against these things mentioned above, then the opposite is Hate, Bigotry and Intolerance. It's just the english language you are mad at. Not the NO on 8-ers.

Very nice.

Im going to take a chill pill now, you want one?

[Rhenzanite]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The No-on-8 campaign has made it quite simple. Either your with us or against us. Who knows? Hillary's tactics may have cost here the nomination, but her smearing may have worked here in this case.




Clean? If you consider the sewer clean than I suppose you may be correct.

The No side single handedly introduced into this dialogue the words HATE, BIGOTRY and INTOLERANCE and hence have showed themselves for who they really are.

Trust me, I've referred to the 'yes on 8 people' as bigots since FAR before the prop was introduced. The churches in my area are hateful, condescending and full of bigoted people. I went to a friends graduation from a private christian school and the 'key-note speaker' who was a teacher there compared non-believers to Hitler and Osama Bin Laden (which is funny, because both were religious and used religion to fuel their campaigns). I have felt nothing but hatred from these 'loving' people and I feel the need to defend. We're not the ones doing the attacking (for the most part), we're simply defending ourselves from the lies spouted by the 'yes on 8' campaign.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by JetJockey

we're simply defending ourselves from the lies spouted by the 'yes on 8' campaign.

And you've done an exceptional job. Above and beyond the call of duty.

Good luck.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The No side single handedly introduced into this dialogue the words HATE, BIGOTRY and INTOLERANCE and hence have showed themselves for who they really are.

Now you're playing this paradox game? We can't describe something without being fitting that description? If you are preaching hate, bigotry and intolerance, why can that not be called out? To what would these terms apply if not a group of people legislating to strip gay people of their rights? Does there have to be death involved to meet your standards?

[AuburnJack]

The amount of misinformation, distortion, religious zealotry, fear, and outright lies in this thread is disgusting.

The assertion of some of you that allowing gay people to marry each other somehow infringes on your "religious freedom" is astoundingly stupid, and profoundly hypocritical. The assertion that gay marriage will be "taught in schools" is patently ridiculous, and easily debunked with the barest minimum of actual research. The assertion that allowing other people to marry and experience both the traditional joy and the social benefits that I have somehow takes something away from me and my wife is disgustingly slanderous, and personally insulting.

I am in stark disbelief that so many people in my community can be either this willfully ignorant, or proudly hateful. I am voting no on this monstrous proposition. There are *much* more important concerns facing our state than this stupid, divisive, discriminatory measure, and I can only hope that my fellow Californians will focus on them rather than approving this ham-fisted attempt to codify religious doctrine into our state constitution.

Of course, I hope everyone realizes that whichever way this falls, this isn't over. If Prop 8 passes, we're going to have a whole new round of judicial arguments over the fate of current marriages (and I have seen glee with which some express their hope that these marriages be invalidated... that inhuman display tells me everything I need to know about the Yes on 8 campaign). And if it fails, the bigots and zealots will just rally and try again. There are precedents on both sides; a number of Midwest and Southern states have successfully amended their constitutions over this, and a number of US states (as well as entire nations abroad) have legalized gay marriage and, so far, have not yet been wiped out by a rain of fire. Once again, just more indication that this is a non-issue that belongs in a church bylaw, not in our government.

No on 8.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Now you're playing this paradox game? We can't describe something without being fitting that description? If you are preaching hate, bigotry and intolerance, why can that not be called out?

There's nothing wrong with calling out opponents on something, but 'HATE'?

Hatred is the accusation leveled at people who support Prop 8.

To what would these terms apply if not a group of people legislating to strip gay people of their rights?

In the context of this particular argument, the no side deliberately ignores and refuses to even acknowledge that people disagree with them without hating them. Your statement is further evidence. Either your with us or against us.

Does there have to be death involved to meet your standards?

I dont know about death, but I think there is no doubt as to the character assasination going on in California even as we speak.

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/top...4-2029fbd9a2ce

[LexusNexus]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Nobody's a hateful bigot for voting down high-speed rail even though I'm supporting it. You make it sound like a simple dispute. This is a gravely serious issue with impact well beyond the gay community. The NO campaign has stuck to the issue of marriage, not the matters of children or church taxes. I call that a cleaner game than the YES has played.

Wow, good to see you excited here about a topic, willing to express more than the usual cryptic one-liner. Keep posting. Interesting stuff!

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

There's nothing wrong with calling out opponents on something, but 'HATE'?

Hatred is the accusation leveled at people who support Prop 8.

Hatred is not necessary to support Prop 8, but it is proving to be quite common. And voting Yes on 8 is one thing, every Californian has the right to do that if he or she wants to, but when you have people from out of state throwing money at a campaign filled with dirty tactics, that is hateful.

[LexusNexus]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

There's nothing wrong with calling out opponents on something, but 'HATE'?

Hatred is the accusation leveled at people who support Prop 8.



In the context of this particular argument, the no side deliberately ignores and refuses to even acknowledge that people disagree with them without hating them. Your statement is further evidence. Either your with us or against us.



I dont know about death, but I think there is no doubt as to the character assasination going on in California even as we speak.

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/top...4-2029fbd9a2ce

I agree. It is very possible to support this proposition and not "hate" gay people. I earlier mentioned one reason why this is so.