The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Auburn: licensed, eat)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Children weren't enough? Now Hillary is involved in this?

I dont know why I said that? Election overdrive I guess.

However, the scorched earth, slash and burn politics, fearmongering She put Obama through is very, very similar to the No on 8 campaign.

I dont think most no people are like that at all, but the message from the campaign is incredibly divisive.

When I first saw a sign that said 'H8', I knew the subject was effectively being changed from "Let us get married' to 'Either your with us, or you are an intolerant bigot'.

Win or Lose, I can't wait for this to be over.

[jayhawkfan96]

Your right to free religion stops when it imposes upon the rights of others. You want to quote the constitution quote all of it. Just like many of you like to quote certain parts of the Bible while ignoring any inconvenient passages.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

hahaha
Yes, all those Millionaires in the developing world are totally fattening the treasuries of the Mormon Church.

No, but, after a BYU satellite campus or on-line education, their kids might "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and contribute monetarily.

The only reason this is such an irritant is because it's highly likely that your church is a big-backer of this particular ballot measure. Your church has a long list of "shoulds" and, for most intelligent, independent critical thinkers, it's kind of offensive.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by robertpolyglot

Exclusionary in the way they treat non-Mormons and those who don't buy into their program. You chose to bend what I said.

Yes, cosmopolitan and global, because, hey, if they can get people to buy into the "have to reproduce" mentality, it means more Mormons and more $. At least the Catholic church, and practically all other Christian denominations, beyond their Medieval "black eye" or two, and more recently, the Catholic clergy scandals, neither ram marriage, procreation and tithing levels down people's throats. It's considered ideal, not required.

Back to Prop 8. I think that the Mormons back it up because it "represents" the lack of procreation. Whether Prop. 8 makes it or not, it will never change the institution of marriage and the level of procreation. All of these are personal and situational in nature.

Mormons #s are growing because they hit up the poor and uneducated and try to SAVE them (think south american countries in need) and they procreate in such staggaring #s it's almost yanking the uterus right out of the women (but who cares because they are merely the copilot).

I agree with the idea of taking "Marriage" off the books for all people. It really has no use in California and God is most likely not present in about half of all weddings.

I was married at a country club and was married by my brother-in-law.
A gay friend was married in a church by a pastor.

WHO has the REAL marriage between the two? hmm?

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

When I first saw a sign that said 'H8', I knew the subject was effectively being changed from "Let us get married' to 'Either your with us, or you are an intolerant bigot'.

With an issue like this, it can be that simple. Equality for all people is a basic principle of this society. Voting against that can't really be described any other way.

If people are voting because of church taxes or perversion of children, maybe they aren't hateful bigots. In that case, they're just stupid because they allow themselves to be manipulated by diversion tactics.

So then I guess we agree that not everyone voting YES is a bigot. However, none of them are honorable.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by sav858

What the hell happened to you? Before you were against 8 and now you're vehemently arguing for 8? What did your family and parents pull some guilt trip on you?

Sounds like the movie "But i'm a cheerleader".

You cannot change ones desires no matter how much god you shove down their throat. These protests sound like an ex smoker preaching on their high horse, all the while fighting desperately to not inhale the second hand smoke wafting by.

What is right is right.

Voting NO on prop 8 is what is right.

Don't take away others freedoms because you are afraid of them. They deserve every happiness and the same rights that us heteros have.

[LovelyinLa]

I think the majority of Yes on 8 people are neither homophobe nor bigots or any of the other names that have been hurled towards us. While you do have extremists on both sides, speaking as someone who just voted Yes on 8, I see the prop as simply stating that marriage is between a man and a woman. Since I am a Christian, and this is what it says in my bible. This is how I voted.

However, I don't see my vote as a vote against Gay rights. I would never vote for a Prop that would deny Gays equal rights. I have said time and again, everyone deserves the same rights. What I'm saying is that I can't support redefining marriage. If this was about voting for the expansion of Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships so that they mirror the rights/penalties of marriage than I'd be all for it. However, that's not what was on the ballet.

I think there has to be some compromise on both sides. Until this is reached, we will always argue over this.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by LovelyinLa

I would never vote for a Prop that would deny Gays equal rights.

You just did sweetheart. That is precisely what you did. You took away someone else's rights for equality.

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by LovelyinLa

I think the majority of Yes on 8 people are neither homophobe nor bigots or any of the other names that have been hurled towards us. While you do have extremists on both sides, speaking as someone who just voted Yes on 8, I see the prop as simply stating that marriage is between a man and a woman. Since I am a Christian, and this is what it says in my bible. This is how I voted.

However, I don't see my vote as a vote against Gay rights. I would never vote for a Prop that would deny Gays equal rights. I have said time and again, everyone deserves the same rights. What I'm saying is that I can't support redefining marriage. If this was about voting for the expansion of Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships so that they mirror the rights/penalties of marriage than I'd be all for it. However, that's not what was on the ballet.

I think there has to be some compromise on both sides. Until this is reached, we will always argue over this.

So you just voted with your religion in mind, not your heart. How is your marriage threatened by my relationship of 29 years becoming valid? Why do you deserve the rights that go with marriage, even if it is your second, third or however many times you have been married. Why should my spouse and I, just because we are of the same sex, have to jump through expensive legal hoops to protect our lives and belongings that we share? And still miss out on benifits, pensions, tax breaks and social security. Why is it that you think you and your rights are more important than mine are? That your religion and its beliefs are better or more right? Is my belief in mother earth less valid than your belief in your god? Do I not have the same rights to religious freedom as you do? Or do I have to believe in a god you think is acceptable. I see proposition 8 to be a threat to religious freedom, it is intended to force one belief upon every one else.

VOTE NO ON 8

[OC2Jax]

Churches already have religious freedom. The freedom not to be put in jail for believing all that stuff they want to believe. The freedom to live their lives their way.

It ends there.

They have no freedom to create laws that impose on the rights of others.
Heteros can still marry even if Prop 8 fails....they are being denied NOTHING.

Still the bigots hide behind this bogus "lack of religious freedom" crap.