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Old 04-23-2009, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 5,398,411 times
Reputation: 982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
It's not that simple b/c you are not specifying what is increasing, the rate or the revenue.
I don't want to argue this further. ... one of us has a real lack of understanding of this issue. I am sure you think that I'm the one, and you're sure that I'm the one....so lets give up discussing this. OK? I will continue saying it increases taxes. You can say what you want. But it is clear to me that we're never going to agree on this issue.

Quote:
so the only way I see mitigating that is placing a spending cap and rainy day fund so we don't get screwed in bad years, like now.
I agree. But the spending cap has to be solid. It can't be voted out by the legislature...it has to be so solid that they can't wiggle around it. This spending cap is not that. This spending cap proposition is just words to placated an angry citizenery(spelling).
Quote:
They only work if there is an actual cap in place too
.Yes, you are right. However, this spending cap does not cap spending.

Quote:
Voting No doesn't prevent them from raising taxes in the future. And w/o a spending cap and rainy day fund, it just gives them more reason to IMO
Voting yes does not prevent tax increases...moreover it continues the insanity that we have in place now. California government has doubled in size in ten years. Why? waste...stupid laws...lack of conservative thinking (I don't mean republican--I mean true fiscal responsibility).

Only by defeating ALL of their propositions can we send a message that we are serious--that we want the governmental sitiuation improved, taxes decreased, governmental services targeted where they provide core services and not more. Only by voting NO can we give them the message that we are demanding governmental accountability--and if we can't get it, a large grass roots movement may begin to re-write the entire California State Constitution. (yes--there has been lots of talk about that lately.)

VOTE NO!

 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:35 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,128,038 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Apparently you missed the second post in this thread or anything Happ has posted, but you seem to enjoy that group mentality anyways.
Alright I missed Happ's post, but you are leaping to unwarranted assumptions if you think I'm following some sort of group mentality. I've voted NO on practically every state, county and city measure for perhaps 1-2 decades. Voting NO on Proposition 1A isn't anything new to me.

Now I dare you to count the posters in this topic who are FOR 1A and the posters who are AGAINST 1A, and then report the tally. It seems clear that you are in the minority.

By the way, even Happ agrees that the measure will probably fail:

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
I doubt that the propositions will pass anyway since both the governor & legislators haven't been promoting them.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:43 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,982 posts, read 32,663,382 times
Reputation: 13635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Now I dare you to count the posters in this topic who are FOR 1A and the posters who are AGAINST 1A, and then report the tally. It seems clear that you are in the minority.

By the way, even Happ agrees that the measure will probably fail:
Maybe this is some sort of contest to you or something, I dunno why you are so obsessed with how many people agree with you on this ONE thread and disagree with me. Do you always have this need for validation from random internet users? That is partly why I said the stuff about "group mentality" b/c your posts kind of reflect that imo.

Yes it is clear I am in the minority and I've indicated that numerous times but thanks for reminding me several times b/c it really added to the discussion. In my first post on this thread I also said how most of these measure would probably fail, did you miss that too? Yes both Happ and I feel that these are going to fail, but is that suppose to change our opinion on it? Are we suppose to pretend they are going to pass just b/c we want them to when polls show the opposite?
 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 5,398,411 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Yes both Happ and I feel that these are going to fail, but is that suppose to change our opinion on it? Are we suppose to pretend they are going to pass just b/c we want them to when polls show the opposite?
....but it would be awfully nice if you would merely agree with us and VOTE NO! (chuckle).
 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,128,038 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Maybe this is some sort of contest to you or something.
It's a debate, and you lost.

At least we can all agree that this measure is likely to fail.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 5,398,411 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
It's a debate, and you lost.
.
Win/lose a debate's really not the issue to me. The issue is improving the world we live in.

VOTE NO!
 
Old 04-23-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,982 posts, read 32,663,382 times
Reputation: 13635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
It's a debate, and you lost.
Only in your mind......

But when Ca is in the same exact position of budget deficits next year and the years following that then we'll see who really loses.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,128,038 times
Reputation: 10539
Maybe our elected representatives will learn to quit raising our taxes to pay for out of control social programs. Maybe pigs will fly.

Don't worry. I hope to take my "No Party" out of the state soon. You are welcome to have the dregs of California.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 5,398,411 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Only in your mind......

But when Ca is in the same exact position of budget deficits next year and the years following that then we'll see who really loses.
I think we all agree that we want California improved. We disagree only on the value of these six propositions.

VOTE NO!
 
Old 04-23-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,128,038 times
Reputation: 10539
What I want is lower taxes and fewer social programs. Taxes have gone out of control.

Hey sav858, if you don't mind answering please tell me your occupation. I'm an electronic engineer.

I'm sorry if the topic became rather contentious. I thought it was a good debate, and may even continue to be a good debate.
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