Is it really so expensive to live in CA? Am I naive for thinking otherwise? (Los Angeles: low income, sales)

[StarshipPoopers1]

Hello everyone.

I've become fascinated by CA lately and I'm heavily considering moving there after college. I'm not one of these people roped in by the LA/Hollywood 'magic' or even the climate, as I quite enjoy my Canadian winters and cool weather. But the geography, surroundings, culture, and IT industry out there seem far more enjoyable than anything here in Ontario or out west in Vancouver.

I've been frequenting LA and SF apartment rental sites and real estate sites looking at costs, and to be honest I'm not seeing the huge costs of living that everyone on here bellyaches about. Nice and clean apartments in LA and SF look far less expensive than in Vancouver and only a little more than they would cost in Toronto. State and federal income taxes look about the same as Ontario's from the quick comparison that I did. I'm sure that food and merchandise would still be cheaper than it is here, since everything here costs significantly higher.

Yet as someone who is living North of the border, I have no way of really verifying and I consider people's first hand accounts to be much more credible then internet searches.

If I moved there I would have a starting salary of about $50,000 given the average for the diploma and experience that I'll have upon graduation and my subsequent move. There would be a lot of room for expansion in my salary too.

Do people think that taxes in CA are ridiculously high simply because the other states in the US are typically taxed quite leniently or not even taxed at all by the state? Because as I've said, I think that the transition in expenses and taxes between Canada and CA would be quite smooth and wouldn't be all that much different.

Furthermore, houses are so cheap in CA right now that a nice 4 bedroom house in a suburb is like $150,000-200,000, whereas I would probably pay upwards of $300,000 for a comparable house in Canada near Toronto, and even more out west.

Am I missing something and being naive? Or am I just used to these costs since I'm a heavily taxed Canadian? I would hate to leave everything in Canada behind when I am quite confident that I could get a good paying job in Toronto or Vancouver, only to find that I didn't have too much expendable income in CA.

I really like Toronto and Vancouver and think that Canada is an amazing country, but at the same time the thought of getting a job in Toronto kind of worries me since that'd probably mean settling down there for good, and leaving behind any chance of branching out and experiencing life in other places, especially the US.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers1

If I moved there I would have a starting salary of about $50,000

You couldn't even live in Stockton with that salary.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers1

Furthermore, houses are so cheap in CA right now that a nice 4 bedroom house in a suburb is like $150,000-200,000,

Where? Does you definition of "nice" include being in the desert, 75 miles from work, surrounded by low income people on government housing subsidies?

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers1

Hello everyone.

I've become fascinated by CA lately and I'm heavily considering moving there after college. I'm not one of these people roped in by the LA/Hollywood 'magic' or even the climate, as I quite enjoy my Canadian winters and cool weather. But the geography, surroundings, culture, and IT industry out there seem far more enjoyable than anything here in Ontario or out west in Vancouver.

I've been frequenting LA and SF apartment rental sites and real estate sites looking at costs, and to be honest I'm not seeing the huge costs of living that everyone on here bellyaches about. Nice and clean apartments in LA and SF look far less expensive than in Vancouver and only a little more than they would cost in Toronto. State and federal income taxes look about the same as Ontario's from the quick comparison that I did. I'm sure that food and merchandise would still be cheaper than it is here, since everything here costs significantly higher.

Yet as someone who is living North of the border, I have no way of really verifying and I consider people's first hand accounts to be much more credible then internet searches.

If I moved there I would have a starting salary of about $50,000 given the average for the diploma and experience that I'll have upon graduation and my subsequent move. There would be a lot of room for expansion in my salary too.

Do people think that taxes in CA are ridiculously high simply because the other states in the US are typically taxed quite leniently or not even taxed at all by the state? Because as I've said, I think that the transition in expenses and taxes between Canada and CA would be quite smooth and wouldn't be all that much different.

Furthermore, houses are so cheap in CA right now that a nice 4 bedroom house in a suburb is like $150,000-200,000, whereas I would probably pay upwards of $300,000 for a comparable house in Canada near Toronto, and even more out west.

Am I missing something and being naive? Or am I just used to these costs since I'm a heavily taxed Canadian? I would hate to leave everything in Canada behind when I am quite confident that I could get a good paying job in Toronto or Vancouver, only to find that I didn't have too much expendable income in CA.

I really like Toronto and Vancouver and think that Canada is an amazing country, but at the same time the thought of getting a job in Toronto kind of worries me since that'd probably mean settling down there for good, and leaving behind any chance of branching out and experiencing life in other places, especially the US.

When will you graduate and are you sure you will be able to find a decent job in CAlifornia? I know cost of living in Vancouver is pretty high thus you might be able to live as well in California, but don't be fooled by what you see on the net. You don't know the areas, the true condition of the rentals, etc. The best thing would be to take a vacation for about 2 or 3 weeks and see for yourself. I would venture a guess, the next year or so would not be a good time to think about moving to California. Hopefully after that things will get better.

YOu are right, you should branch out, at least for awhile. I will add one thing, no you can not get a nice home for $150 to $200,000. this is what I mean about not believing what you read..I won't go into detail about my brothers home, but it would border on even being nice; 1100 sq ft, about 30 miles from L.A. worth about $300,000. It was worth twice that much a couple of years ago.
Nita

[Rhenzanite]

Originally Posted by Majin

You couldn't even live in Stockton with that salary.

I live in the san luis obispo area less than a mile from the ocean and me and my boyfriend make about 50,000 a year gross combined.

It can be done.

[Luke9686]

You can live in California on that salary, but don't plan on buying a house. The houses you see for $150-$200K are either WAAAAAYYYYY out in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of the hood. It's tricky looking at houses on the internet, as they always look nice. Beware of anything in that price range, it's probably in a bad area.

[StarshipPoopers1]

Yeah I agree that I was being stupid when I talked about getting a house. Disregard that, that's not my serious focus anyways.

I'm perfectly content renting a single bedroom apartment or even getting a room mate if I had to. I have no delusions about living some grandiose lifestyle nor do I expect CA to be cheap. I just don't see how everyone is saying that I would be bankrupted when I would only be saving a few hundred dollars a month on rent here, the cost of living here is substantially higher to the neighbouring states that I've visited when it comes to food, merchandise, etc. State and federal taxes there don't look drastically different from provincial and federal taxes here, despite being among the highest in the US. I could go to New York and buy trivial things with my Canadian currency that was worth $0.70 USD, and still spend les than I would pay buying it here. It's been a year or so since I went to Michigan, but still, the difference was big. Now if CA is so much more expensive than either of those, does it not stand to reason that I'm already experiencing that? I also pay 13% sales tax, it was 15% a year or so ago.

It just seems improbable that someone starting at $50,000 a year would be destitute and living in the slums. It seems from some of the posts that I've read on here that many people have a much higher expectation for what they should possess than I do. All I want is a decent place to live and enough spare cash to be able to have an enjoyable life. I could do that anywhere, but nowhere looks to have such a plethora of things to do than in CA and it's surrounding areas.

Rent is a bit cheaper in Toronto, but the average job salary for my field is a bit lower here too, so it equals out from what I see. Again, I don't want to look like an idiot, so if I'm completely misinformed let me know. But I know better than to come looking for the 'American dream' of a giant SUV and an uber loft or house.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by JetJockey

I live in the san luis obispo area less than a mile from the ocean and me and my boyfriend make about 50,000 a year gross combined.

It can be done.

of course it can, I agree, most of would, depending on where one wants to live or can get a job. SLO is a great community, one of my favorites but it isn't exactly the capital of the work force. Obviously the OP intends on using his education to do something like corporate type of work, or that is how it appears.

Nita

[drshang]

The cost of living in Vancouver is comparable, if not higher, than Los Angeles. Toronto is similar. I have a friend who lives in Vancouver and basically it's at least as expensive to live there as in LA. The tax rates are higher and rents are basically the same. SF is a little more expensive than LA, but again, if you're comparing it to Vancouver or Toronto it's pretty similar. Wages tend to be lower in Canada too, from what I understand.

IMO Toronto and Vancouver have a pretty big housing bubble that is a couple years behind that of the US. Yes, no toxic mortgages and option ARMs and subprime stuff. But Japan didn't have that stuff in their 15 year real estate recession and we didn't have that stuff in the recession in the early 90s. The cost of living in all four cities will drop, relatively, over the next five years, almost certainly.

All that said is you aren't really missing much. Most people who compare the cost of living in California are comparing it to much less desirable places such as St. Louis MO or Dallas TX. I think the difference is in the US there are places where you can get a somewhat similar lifestyle for a lot less. Probably the case in Canada, but big cities are expensive everywhere. A lot of it is that CA used to not be that expensive before the 10 years of housing nonsense. But it will come down - economically it has to.

[Rhenzanite]

Originally Posted by nmnita

of course it can, I agree, most of would, depending on where one wants to live or can get a job. SLO is a great community, one of my favorites but it isn't exactly the capital of the work force. Obviously the OP intends on using his education to do something like corporate type of work, or that is how it appears.

Nita

I think many would be surprised at how many corporations we have in SLO... you just need to know where to look. Dioptics, ZooMed, Sports Warehouse, there's a huge software company in Paso Robles, one of the biggest in the country. There are also a lot of regional offices for big companies such as Wells Fargo, Sothebys and Chevron.

Unfortunately, you have to market yourself and network... you're more likely to get a job by reference than by simply sending in a resume.