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What Coffeelovr said about the rude people in the midwest is sadly accurate. The other day my wife and I (for fun) counted how many people in customer relation jobs at stores said Thank You or were friendly to us. The result was 1...for the entire day.
People in my area are oppressed, and that leads to depression. When you live in a gloomy nasty place where you are sheltered from the world it tends to make you mean. The constant rain we have had for 2 weeks don't help either. That's another thing; our Summer don't start til June and ends in late Sept so the 3 months of summer you get are usually ruined by rain every other day. The midwest is a dump. Counting my days til' the house sells and I can head west somewhere.
I've just gotta say this..One of the best things about this state is that you can pretty much find whatever you're looking for here.
If you want to live amongst a more conservative or religious population you can find it.(Auburn, Outer Sacramento, Riverside etc)
If you want to live amongst the most hippy ultra liberals you can find it (Berkeley, San Francisco, L.A. etc).
If you want to live in a sprawling suburb on new houses (San Ramon, Antioch)
If you want a small liberal laid back town on the coast, well, (Mendocino, Lagunitas, Bolinas)
If you want a small conservative town on the coast, then (Ft Bragg etc)
If you want to live amongst the wealthy.(Malibu, Palo Alto, Beverly Hills, Piedmont, etc)
Delta Farming town with large Japanese population? (Walnut Grove)
Delta Farming town with large Chinese population? (Locke)
Delta farming town with white population? (Galt)
California has something for everyone..You cannot lump all Californians together because there is just way too much diversity here.. In people and in landscape, in lifestyles and political beliefs!
Look, just in the last 4 years within a 5 mile radius of our "quiet" hamlet in WI; there have been four murders (of adults); the killing of an infant; a few rapes, one child kidnapping; many, many robberies; two out of control arson fires; etc. etc. And the population of that 5 mile radius is less than 1,000 people! These crimes actually happened! Oh, and I'm not including the DWI's of folks drunk while driving; and meth and other drug problems in the area.
I can only imagine how hard life in a third world nation is: Lack of clean water is common; food is scarce; etc. And I am sure there are some in third world countries who are criminal because there are people like that everywhere! But Sir, there are also people like that in small town America! Let's not get smug and think just because God in His mercy has blessed our nation in various ways that we assume it's because we "deserve it" because we don't -- that's why it's called "mercy." And we should not look down on other nations who live in more dire circumstances. As the old saying goes, "If not by God's grace, so goes I."
I don't buy your Compton, Wisconsin analogy. So there are a few DWI's. wow. I know that Milwaukee has a high crime rate. In the end, however, Milwaukee is no LA, and WI is no CA.
Lady you don't live among and surround yourself with 3rd world people. Therefore you can't accurately tell people what it's like. It's not America's fault that 3rd world countries exist and America owes them nothing. You're just yakking away and saying things that sound good but again it's not realistic. Somehow, I just don't see you moving yourself, your kids or your parents out of your comfortable little neighborhood and down to a country where the crime rate is sky high such as Rio De Janeiro, or Kabul, or Mogadishu, Algeria, or Tijuana, or even Bombay. Americans have the right to complain when their lives and the lives of their families are at stake. Again, I think your heart is on the right place but you're living in FANTASYLAND. When's the last time you lived in Detroit, Harlem, Watts, Compton, New Orleans and how were you treated? Please do tell!
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Is Oklahoma perfect? No. But it is a LOT better for me than socal. And I couldn't afford California anymore anyway.
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Nobody should assume that moving to a very different place will somehow magically fix everything. Nor should they go without investigating the place. Nor should they assume that everything will be great once they are there, or at least soon. But while it IS all about what you want and how willing you are to adjust, when you know you don't like it in socal and exactly why, you still know. Why should you not talk about it to those who need to hear more than the image?
I know where you are coming from and am glad you are happy with life in Oklahoma. What my main point was though was that you can't stereotype all of CA as overcrowded, etc... when complaining about such problems. Does overcrowding exists in 'parts' of CA? Sure. And I'll be the first one to admit after growing up and living in LA. But does CA equal LA or SF? Absolutely not! Its when these sweeping generalizations are made about the entire state based on one person's limited experience that I disagree.
This is akin to someone saying Oklahoma is full of rednecks playing the banjo and drinkin' whiskey in the hills all day. Now are there rednecks in Oklahoma who like playing the banjo? Most likely. But does that stereotype fit the entire state? Of course not. So even if I lived in the the hills of Oklahoma for a while I couldn't make a sweeping generalization about the entire state based on that experience.
And you get a lot of ppl on their way out stereotyping all of CA using this same kind of narrow thinking and generalizing. I think it makes leaving a bit easier possibly to write the whole state off because of a bad experience. And when faced with problems in one's new state it makes it easier to exagerate how terrible life must be in CA. So no matter how bad it gets there it could never be as bad as CA with all those illegals, liberals, earthquakes, crowds, etc... Because if CA really isn't that bad then one has to ask the next question. What am I really doing here in the middle of <fill in the blank>?
I have been there myself in moving out of state for all the common reasons/excuses/complaints. And the thing is you don't really appreciate a lot about CA until you are gone. But I am glad I moved and enjoyed experiencing another part of the country. And now I am enjoying CA even more in living here again. Yet I have friends and relatives who have moved out, some of whom say they don't plan to return. But when it really comes down to it there are things they do miss about the Golden State. One friend of mine moved to CO and lived there 20 years until his children were grown. He then decided it was time to come home. And so he and his wife are back in CA now along with some of his children going to college out here.
There are always two sides to every coin and CA has a lot of good aspects despite the cons. Things just don't come as easy as they once did out here. But it is still the Golden State for many reasons to many ppl.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 07-23-2009 at 04:41 PM..
It can be very hard to break into social circles in smaller towns. For one thing, a lot of the people probably grew up together. They aren't accepting to newcomers because they don't have to be: They already have their own social circle.
I've seen this mentioned more than once on the City-Data boards. As someone from the outside, you can move to an area and live there relatively comfortably, but you'll never be an insider and you'll never get into the social clique. That's a small town thing that you don't see very often in big cities like LA, San Francisco, NYC. Big cities have a more mobile, transient population while small towns often don't have that. Small towns don't have to accept you, and consequently, many times they'll find any reason to NOT accept you. (Your hair is funny, your dog is a weird breed, you wear weird clothes, you talk about strange things, etc.)
No place is perfect but I don't believe a lot of people realize how hard the trade-offs can be.
There are a lot of posters who used to live in California but moved, who still post on the California boards here on City-Data. Why? Why don't they go and rejoice on their new state's board?
If this is important to you then you should consider it. But it is not a big thing to everyone. I have never "fit in" anywhere. What makes me comfortable and where I fit in are two different things. Its surroundings and environment vs people. For me socal was horrible. I don't like hurry, or the crush of people. I ESPECIALLY don't like being smashed up against your neighbors. I need a big personal space. The apartment I lived in in socal had gotten the druggies in after they stopped renting section 8. The older people who lived there were not my type, but they were peaceful. When they pushed up the rents and let go on maintaince the druggies moved into the empties. Next door to me my nice 77 year old neighbor left to visit her son in the east and her other son filled it with methheads.
For me the space around my house, while not huge is great. There are trees instead of people. Its green. There is no smog, and the tap water is drinkable. The people are not unfriendly, but give you space. This is ever so much more important to me than being embrassed. I'm not like them though I find them more pleasent than the go getters in California. I doubt I'm "accepted" and will never be from "here". But it doesn'tmatter because that isn't what I want.
And as long as I'm not out there wanting to change things its fine with them. That is one reason why people may not be accepted or enter the circle, wanting to take what they have and change it to something else.
My friends are all over the place, met online or old friends that moved somewhere else. I'm sure I'll find some here, just not in a big hurry.
And I do participate in the Oklahoma forum. No reason why I shouldn't also participate here. If someone asks about California I'm just as qualified as anyone to give MY view. Which is my view. And just as valid as someone who loves the place and never wants to leave.
I know where you are coming from and am glad you are happy with life in Oklahoma. What my main point was though was that you can't stereotype all of CA as overcrowded, etc... when complaining about such problems. Does overcrowding exists in 'parts' of CA? Sure. But CA does not equal LA either. Its when these sweeping generalizations are made based on one person's experience in a very limited region that I disagree.
This is akin to someone saying Oklahoma is full of rednecks playing the banjo and drinkin' whiskey in the hills all day. Now are there rednecks in Oklahoma who like playing the banjo? Most likely. But does that stereotype fit the entire state? Of course not. So even if I lived in the the hills of Oklahoma for a while I couldn't make a sweeping generalization about the entire state based on that experience.
And you get a lot of ppl on their way out stereotyping all of CA using this same kind of narrow thinking and generalizing. I think it makes leaving a bit easier possibly to write the whole state off because of a bad experience. And when faced with problems in one's new state it makes it easier to exagerate how terrible life must be in CA. So no matter how bad it gets there it could never be as bad as CA with all those illegals, liberals, earthquakes, crowds, etc... Because if CA really isn't that bad then one has to ask the next question. What am I doing here in the middle of <fill in the blank>?
I have been there myself in moving out of state for all the common reasons/excuses/complaints. And the thing is you don't really appreciate a lot about CA until you are gone. But I am glad I moved and enjoyed experiencing another part of the country. And now I am enjoying CA even more in living here again. Yet I have friends and relatives who have moved out, some of whom say they don't plan to return. But when it really comes down to it there are things they do miss about the Golden State. One friend of mine moved to CO and lived there 20 years until his children were grown. He then decided it was time to come home. And so he and his wife are back in CA now along with some of his children going to college out here.
There are always two sides to every coin and CA has a lot of good aspects despite the cons. Things just don't come as easy as they once did out here here. But it is still the Golden State for many reasons to many ppl.
Derek
Yes, there are two sides of the coin and they rest on what you want. For me a town out in the outskirts is what I wanted. For someone who is desperate for stores and entertainment, I wouldn't reccomend it.
I usually refer to socal when talking about crowding. From San Diego to past LA it is a giant suburb. Here and there are spaces, but they are few. Years ago my ex and I went to nocal to visit and tried to move up there but houses weren't selling. So there is a different feel. But while I considered nocal, the fact is the cost of living is still prohibitive. And the regulate this and than mentality applies to the state rather than parts of it. This IS a factor for a lot of people.
I've grown less appreciative of socal since moving. I really don't look forward to visiting for Thanksgiving, having all the space filled with buildings and people and houses. And while where I'll be staying is above the smog line, still have to be out in the smog. I think the only thing I miss is the bus. Have to get a car here. But then on a hot hot day I didn't take the bus anywhere anyway.
I hope California can catch its breath and find itself. But I'm still sad that the place I loved is still going away fast.
People move to CA thinking they will find what they are looking for and some love it and others hate it. I don't like when people move to other places and don't research the area enough and try to compare it to what they had. Many people move from CA and love it and some move back for one reason or the other. But from my own personal experience the times I moved out of CA people who had never been to other states had a lot to say based on a perception they had about a place. Californians bash other states too.
CA is a great state and will be even better once the prices of homes go down, and the state can fix its messes. CA has natural beauty that other states can't compete with, of course all of you on here already know this.
I don't mind people who use to live here comment about CA. Both sides should always be heard so that others who do their research can get an idea from others views.
It also makes me laugh when people bring up crime, again this is the US and not some far off place. Every place will have some sort of crime factor. If you move to an area with high crime and don't mind it then fine but don't move to a place with high crime and not expect something to happen to you, your property, and or someone you know.
As others have mentioned other states have clicks. This I've always found to be a downside of moving around. But I've found many clicks in CA too, it can be very difficult to break into some social groups here. CA is not that different from many other places except for the job market. Finding a job in CA mainly the bay area is less of who you know then about what you know and what you have to offer. Other states are a bit behind the times when it comes to employment. CA and NY do a great job at employing people. Although, I love how NYers handle the hiring and firing process more than CA. In NY you know by the end of the day or end of the week if you have a job. The interviewer might seem rude to Californian's but I like how straight up there are, there is no BS'ing around. In CA the interviewer will waste your time and have a 2 hour interview, show you around, and all that stuff and not call you back. They'll base your interview on how they feel about you more than what your skill set is. Can't stand this.
I'll probably be moving from here in a couple of years. Not because I think the grass is greener on the other side. I think all the states have similar components to them, moving to another state is not like moving to another country unless you are moving from city life to the country and if you do that and are not a country person don't move expecting to like it. But, I like the idea of being able to own my house free of a bank mortgage (I don't care about a big house just a house in a safe area). If I stay here I will be paying a mortgage for the rest of my life and or paying rent (someone elses mortgage). I just like security, CA is still in the US I can always visit.
I've just gotta say this..One of the best things about this state is that you can pretty much find whatever you're looking for here.
If you want to live amongst a more conservative or religious population you can find it.(Auburn, Outer Sacramento, Riverside etc)
If you want to live amongst the most hippy ultra liberals you can find it (Berkeley, San Francisco, L.A. etc).
If you want to live in a sprawling suburb on new houses (San Ramon, Antioch)
If you want a small liberal laid back town on the coast, well, (Mendocino, Lagunitas, Bolinas)
If you want a small conservative town on the coast, then (Ft Bragg etc)
If you want to live amongst the wealthy.(Malibu, Palo Alto, Beverly Hills, Piedmont, etc)
Delta Farming town with large Japanese population? (Walnut Grove)
Delta Farming town with large Chinese population? (Locke)
Delta farming town with white population? (Galt)
California has something for everyone..You cannot lump all Californians together because there is just way too much diversity here.. In people and in landscape, in lifestyles and political beliefs!
All this is true, but after living in 5 states in the past 20 years, I think most of this is true in just about every state today, maybe not so many Asians but otherwise it holds true in NM, VA, CA, TX and AR. Actually even the Asian population is in almost every state, but not quite to extent of CAlif.
The OP's big mistake was moving to a Rust Belt state. OK, WI is not as much of a Rust Belt state as say OH or MI, but let's be real. It's a pretty depressed place. The OP might as well have stayed in CA. If one wants greener pastures, don't move to the Rust Belt!
Yes, there are two sides of the coin and they rest on what you want. For me a town out in the outskirts is what I wanted. For someone who is desperate for stores and entertainment, I wouldn't reccomend it.
I usually refer to socal when talking about crowding. From San Diego to past LA it is a giant suburb. Here and there are spaces, but they are few. Years ago my ex and I went to nocal to visit and tried to move up there but houses weren't selling. So there is a different feel. But while I considered nocal, the fact is the cost of living is still prohibitive. And the regulate this and than mentality applies to the state rather than parts of it. This IS a factor for a lot of people.
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I hope California can catch its breath and find itself. But I'm still sad that the place I loved is still going away fast.
I know what you mean about not wanting to live in the large cities anymore. As I mentioned I grew up in LA County and with the birth of our third child my wife and I realized we need to get out. It was too crowded and crazy for us and yes it had changed too much.
So we moved to CO and learned to enjoy wide open spaces and room to breath. The desire to ever live in SoCal again was gone for the most part. Although there were certain aspects of CA we missed - being closer to our family, closer to the coast and the year round pleasant weather amoung other things.
Eventually we decided to move back but to a very different part of the state. Now that we are here on the Monterey Penninsula we have the best of both worlds - wide open spaces, no smog, no crowds, close proximity to the coast, great weather, and driving distance to family. We actually live in the small beach town of Pacific Grove with very minimal population growth. Take a look here: Pacific Grove.
And there are many, many small towns in CA like this which are worlds apart from the LA/OC/SD/SF concrete jungle. Here is a very nice town in the Sierra Foothills probably not much different than your small town in the terms which you described: Jackson. And above SF you have many more.
If you visit these other parts of CA long enough to take in their beauty and different way of life you will find that they are very different from the concrete jungle you have grown to dispise. Yet they are very much California. So much so in fact I would agrue they are more truely what CA was like long before millions of ppl moved in. All you have to do is take a drive through Big Sur or the Redwoods to appreciate this. And you'll see what I mean. No concrete jungle, smog or overcowding here.
Big Sur:
Redwood National Park:
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 07-23-2009 at 11:37 PM..
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What my main point was though was that you can't stereotype all of CA as overcrowded, etc... when complaining about such problems. Does overcrowding exists in 'parts' of CA? Sure. And I'll be the first one to admit after growing up and living in LA. But does CA equal LA or SF? Absolutely not! Its when these sweeping generalizations are made about the entire state based on one person's limited experience that I disagree. 
