Use of "the" to identify freeways - where does it start/end? (Los Angeles: live in, law)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Bunjee

I figure the use of "the" is pretty simple. In SoCal's freeway culture they're not thought of as "interstates", just freeways. There's no "I-5", using the suffix. It's "the 5 Freeway" or elliptically "the 5". There are freeways that are not interstates so there'd be no "I-" suffix anyway, as there are State Routes and U.S. Highways. With such a vast network, why bother having to change up designations? Technically, you take I-405 to SR-22 to SR-55 to get to I-15. But it's easier to say, "Take the 405 to the 22 to the 55 to the 15."

As for the original OP, I'd guess the naming habit starts trailing off north of Santa Barbara.

In the Bay Area, "the" is used when referring to a freeway by name; The Nimitz, The MacArthur, The Warren etc. Otherwise it's Take 24 (state hwy) to 580 (interstate) then take 80(interstate) and get on 101(US).

[Bunjee]

Yeah, I didn't drive is SF (or SJ) so I never had such conversations! Either way, it's kinduva whatever thing. If it brands me Southern Californian then...er...OK.

[Voyageur]

Originally Posted by ferretkona

So do you ask "how do I find 5?" 5 what, 5 monkeys, 5 loaves of bread. maybe this is why so many foreigners get lost on the freeway. Or should I say get lost on freeway?

The, part of a complete sentence.

You claim to have a problem with people who don't write complete sentences.

1) There is no question mark at the end of your first sentence. Actually, there is no end punctuation at all. There's a question mark within your quote, but that is because your quote is itself a question. The sentence on its own lacks one.

2) Your second sentence has no subject.

3) Your second sentence also has no verb.

4) Your second sentence is a question, yet it ends in a period and not a question mark.

5) Your third sentence begins with a word that is not capitalized.

And that isn't even a comprehensive listing of the abundant errors you've made. So, basically, you couldn't care much less about formal English, yet you're annoyed when anyone puts the article 'the' in front of a freeway designation?

I'm impressed. That's even dumber than thinking someone referring to "the Five" might be talking about five monkeys.

It's a colloquialism. Given your marginally coherent skills of composition, its use should be the least of your concerns.

PS - No, I don't really care about people who don't bother to correctly compose online postings. I am merely pointing out the laughable contrast between your "grammar cop" concern and your own rather sad use of the English language.

[Gentoo]

Damn!

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by matt345

Has anyone ever taken a serious look at where exactly the use of "the" in identifying freeway names starts/ends?

Good question. I don't know why we don't call them by their names instead of by their numbers, although I notice that some die-hard commuters do. People in other parts of the country laugh at us for using the "the" before the freeway number.
California Highways (www.cahighways.org): Southern California Freeway Development (Part 1 - 1940s)

[wburg]

Originally Posted by ferretkona

So do you ask "how do I find 5?" 5 what, 5 monkeys, 5 loaves of bread. maybe this is why so many foreigners get lost on the freeway. Or should I say get lost on freeway?

The, part of a complete sentence.

As mentioned above, generally in northern California you ask "How do I find I-5?" Or maybe "How do I find Interstate 5?"

It doesn't bother me one way or another, in fact I find the idea that even in our overly homogenized culture there are still regional dialects and variations on language (such as whether you put your pop in a sack, your soda in a bag, or your coke in a poke.) Places in a country as immense and majestic as the United States, and states as immense and majestic as California, should have regional variations that set them apart as different--in obvious ways like landscape and climate, notable ways like foods and regional brands, and in subtle ways like language and colloquialisms.

[KC6ZLV]

The use of the article (the) before the freeway number is strictly a Southern California thing. In the San Joaquin Valley, CA-99 is usually referred to as "99." In Bakersfield you will usually hear all the state highways called only by their number, with the exception of I-5, which is referred to equally as "5" or "I-5." North of Visalia CA-99 is still called "99," but you will hear "Highway 99" sometimes. Most of the other state highways are usually referred to as "Highway-##." Here in Sacramento you usually hear, "I-5, US-50, and Highway 99." I-80 is called "80" or "I-80" with about equal frequency.

The Bay Area and and the Central Coast usually refers to highways by number, such as "one-o-one, two-eighty," and so on.

[mdmagana]

I was born and raised in Orange County. I had no idea this was a SoCal thing until I moved away and people looked at me funny for referring to an Interstate as "The ##".

My guess is that since there are so many freeways, interstates, highways, etc, in SoCal, "The" became used to identify something as a major freeway or freeway-like road. For example, Imperial Highway I believe is state route 90... yet no one calls is "The 90" because it is not freeway-like.

Of course this is just a guess. =)

[SandyCo]

The "why" of this is simple... People in So-Cal don't call freeways here by their names because the names constantly change! We say "the 5", because if we ask, "Where is the Golden State Freeway?", we'd better be north of downtown! If south of downtown L.A., we'd have to ask, "Where is the Santa Ana Freeway?" and there are so many transplants here and so many people who don't even know the names of various freeways that it's far easier to stick to the numbers and that's it.

Another example is the 101. If north/west of the 101/170 split in the San Fernando Valley, you'd better ask, "How far does the Ventura Freeway travel west before it truly goes north?". If south of that split, you should ask, "Where does the Hollywood Freeway end?" (Answer: When it merges into the 5 - after becoming the 170!) See how confusing this can be? Unless you listen to traffic reports and really pay attention to the names of the freeways, those names are very easy to get wrong.

But a small addition of "the"? I also didn't know until now that it marks me as a southern Californian! There are worse things than to be known for being from this area. Bring it on!

[Mvn2nc]

One difference between California and most of the rest of the U.S. has been the way residents refer to highways, or freeways. The term freeway itself is not used in many areas outside California;[citation needed] for instance, in New England, the term highway is universally used. Where most Americans may refer to "I-80" for the east-west Interstate Highway leading from San Francisco to the suburbs of New York, or "I-15" for the north-south artery linking San Diego through Salt Lake City to the Canadian border, Californians are less likely to use the "I" or "interstate" designation in naming freeways.[citation needed]

The numbering of freeway exits, common in most parts of the United States, has only recently been applied in California and initially appearing only in more populous areas. Thus, virtually all Californians refer to exits by signage name rather than by number, as in "Grand Avenue exit" rather than "Exit 21."

Northern California
Northern Californians will typically say "80" or "101" ("one-oh-one") to refer to freeways. Some long-time San Francisco Bay Area residents and many traffic report broadcasts still refer to such highways by name and not number designation: "Bayshore" for Highway 101, or "the Nimitz" for I-880, the portion of the Eastshore Freeway which was named for Admiral Chester Nimitz, a prominent World War II hero with strong local ties. State Route 1 is called "Highway 1" or simply "One" (i.e., "take One down the coast").
Southern California
In Greater Los Angeles, Orange County and San Diego, freeways are referred to either by name or by route number (perhaps with a direction suffix), but with the addition of the article "the", such as "the 405 North" or "the 605". This is in contrast to typical Northern California usage, which omits the article.[8][9][10]
There is no road named the "Los Angeles Freeway"; instead, each freeway which radiates from downtown L.A. is named for its nominal terminus in some other city, such as Santa Monica, Pomona or San Bernardino. News reports will occasionally refer to the Santa Monica and Santa Ana freeways as such; however, residents will very rarely refer to the 405 freeway as the San Diego Freeway (other than on street signs). The majority of natives stick to calling the freeways by their numerical names.[citation needed]
Conversely, the older state highways are generally called not by their numbers, but by their names, as used on signage and in postal addresses. For example, in southern California, State Route 1 is called the Pacific Coast Highway and is often referred to as "PCH" or "the PCH".
Southern Californians often refer to the lanes of a multi-lane divided highway by number, "The Number 1 Lane" (usually referred to as "The Fast Lane") is the lane farthest to the left, with the lane numbers going up sequentially to the right until the far right lane, which is usually referred to as "The Slow Lane."
Distribution
The distribution of these contrasting nomenclatures are irregular, and indicate the extent of integration with the Greater Los Angeles economic sphere of influence. Along Highway 101, the shift occurs at the Santa Ynez Mountains, so that residents of Santa Barbara County speak of "the 101", but residents of San Luis Obispo County call the same freeway "101". Along I-5, this border is less clear. Residents of Bakersfield, over the San Gabriel Mountains from Los Angeles, speak of "the Five" and "the 99", but this use is notably absent in Fresno. Towns in the Mojave Desert tend to use the "the" at least as far as Las Vegas, but not into Arizona; Las Vegas has notable historic ties to the Los Angeles area. Residents of San Diego and the Imperial Valley follow Southern California usage as well.