Yorba Linda votes to support Arizona (Oakland, Orange: fit in, cost, airport)

[smh1]

Originally Posted by Iceman82

I understand your concerns. I would like to clarify that local LE does not have the same powers as ICE, they can walk up to you on the street and inquire immigration status and detain you if suspected, local LE cannot. Local LE needs reasonable suspicion before detaining anyone over SB 1070, they cannot say "No ID, straight to jail". I am not even saying profiling does not exist, or that a few bad apples will not profile, but that is with any law. My entire point is that someone who speaks no English, has no form of ID, cannot provide any pertinent information for LE to verify through the various databases.. well if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. is it a duck? if it's any consolation the law is being watered down to the point of almost not being effective.. but I am glad it has brought the spotlight on the problem with our borders. I would like to also remind you that police can only arrest someone on suspicion of any crime.. it's up to the courts to determine the guilt or innocence of the individual. In San Diego county there are several checkpoints, sometimes closed for months at a time. I have no issue with driving through these checkpoints, I am happy DHS is trying to keep drugs and criminals out of my country. do you object to DUI checkpoints? it boils down to public safety.

Actually they do have the power to arrest you for not having id. Reasonable suspicion really depend's on the police officer on the scene. NV is lovely place to drive. Until you hit those little towns in the middle of nowhere. They seem to have a police car or even two. I have actually passed a police officer and then he started driving the opposite way and passed a bend beyond which I could not see. Then there he was in my tail driving real fast. Lucky for me , I know their tricks and was doing two mph below the limit which is 25. The thing is you are giving wide latitude to police . Now if it is ICE, that is a federal agency and they are much more centralized. But here it is very dependendant on the local sheriff and police. Too much power in the hands of one branch is not good.

Now on the checkpoints, I have no problem . It has been settled in the supreme court. Checkpoints exist all the way from TX to Tucson on the I10 corridor and then I8 from Tucson. If you drive further inland in many of the scenic roads, you will get stopped often-they have many temp checkpoints.

I have no problem with them excpet for my personal dislike. I moved to L.A and now I can drive to my heart's content without those checkpoints and drug sniffing dogs etc. It is just the unease-of making you feel like living in a autocratic foreign country-which I have lived in for work. But that is the border and I love this country and just do not wan't the rest of the country turned into that. Yes they broke the law , but should we throw out our system of checks and balances?

If you really wan't to stop illegal immigration, I am sure there are many ways to stop them within our system. I mean I can google map N. Korea and look at their houses and strreets from the satellite maps. So how difficult would it be to confirm employees eligibility?? But of course that would mean you are arresting all those that hire them and then people have to look themselves in the mirror and realize that the illegals are here, because it is our fellow citizens that are hiring them...

[enigmadsm]

Exactly, shame on the people who hire them and even moreso those who don't do anything to the companies responsible. I think they look at it now like, we can't bring down companies for this it would hurt the economy that much more...But that's what happens when you let something get out of hand for too long

[Iceman82]

Originally Posted by smh1

Actually they do have the power to arrest you for not having id. Reasonable suspicion really depend's on the police officer on the scene. NV is lovely place to drive. Until you hit those little towns in the middle of nowhere. They seem to have a police car or even two. I have actually passed a police officer and then he started driving the opposite way and passed a bend beyond which I could not see. Then there he was in my tail driving real fast. Lucky for me , I know their tricks and was doing two mph below the limit which is 25. The thing is you are giving wide latitude to police . Now if it is ICE, that is a federal agency and they are much more centralized. But here it is very dependendant on the local sheriff and police. Too much power in the hands of one branch is not good.

Now on the checkpoints, I have no problem . It has been settled in the supreme court. Checkpoints exist all the way from TX to Tucson on the I10 corridor and then I8 from Tucson. If you drive further inland in many of the scenic roads, you will get stopped often-they have many temp checkpoints.

I have no problem with them excpet for my personal dislike. I moved to L.A and now I can drive to my heart's content without those checkpoints and drug sniffing dogs etc. It is just the unease-of making you feel like living in a autocratic foreign country-which I have lived in for work. But that is the border and I love this country and just do not wan't the rest of the country turned into that. Yes they broke the law , but should we throw out our system of checks and balances?

If you really wan't to stop illegal immigration, I am sure there are many ways to stop them within our system. I mean I can google map N. Korea and look at their houses and strreets from the satellite maps. So how difficult would it be to confirm employees eligibility?? But of course that would mean you are arresting all those that hire them and then people have to look themselves in the mirror and realize that the illegals are here, because it is our fellow citizens that are hiring them...

Did you know that in most states you can be detained till your identity is confirmed if you commit even an infraction?? you see.. if the officer thinks you are not being honest with information (lacking ID and lying at this point) they can haul you in, run prints, then ticket and release you. Know why that is? no parolee or criminal would carry ID, and give false information to avoid being caught violating parole or having outstanding warrants, or even being wanted for questioning in a crime. Local LE is not give this great "power", they are simply able to help federal agents in detaining criminals.
When you live in an area that is near our countries border, and has a very high population of illegal immigrants and is a gateway for drugs the checkpoints are a necessity. If the federal government would do it's job in securing the borders in the first place there would be no need.. but at the present time it's a big problem. We are not throwing out our system of checks and balances, LE agencies are not judge, jury and executioner, they can only detain someone suspected of a crime.. and there has to be some type of proof to substantiate that suspicion. In regards to the "it's easy to determine eligibility".. well that is false. Problem is that illegal immigrants will use identification of family members legally here, or buy matching ID's for a couple hundred dollars. The only way to really tell is with fingerprints, or a DNA database.. but for someone that feels "the unease-of making you feel like living in a autocratic foreign country" I doubt that is a solution.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Fighter 1

Yep and if God forbid you were to be struck by a car and killed no one would know who to call and tell them you were dead! How easy it would have been Just carry your wallet , All your problems solved . No big deal unless you make it one.

So this is a good reason to single out a group of people because some may not be legal? Because they want to be able to easily identify me if I get killed by a car? Well hell now that you put it that way, I'm all in support of this now. Crap, how could I have overlooked that?

[smh1]

Originally Posted by Iceman82

but for someone that feels "the unease-of making you feel like living in a autocratic foreign country" I doubt that is a solution.

Lets just say I love this country and all it represents. I have travelled extensively and lived in some places without the same rights. It is a blessing to be able to live here.

You know many authoritarian regimes didn't just spring up over night. Usually it is some external event , a security threat or economic or even natural catastophe. To get past that, you give up a few rights at a time, all the while focussing on that one issue-the old story of the frog in water that is heated incrementally, until it gets killed. Then it just becomes a way of life.

We have a unique system and a way of life and something worth holding on to.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Fighter 1

In The State of Massachusetts where I was born the Birth Cert. are the size of your S.S. card , Traveling as much as I do I have always carried a copy of it along me since I don't carry or have a drivers license. ( but thats another subject).

Well in California, where I live, birth certs. are a good deal larger than an SS card so...

[Iceman82]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

So this is a good reason to single out a group of people because some may not be legal? Because they want to be able to easily identify me if I get killed by a car? Well hell now that you put it that way, I'm all in support of this now. Crap, how could I have overlooked that?

The group being singled out is illegal immigrants.. and no one should be driving without a license on them to begin with.

[HeyHolliday!]

The funniest thing about this whole thread is that Illegal Immigration has never been stopped entirely by any one society. Illegals will come regardless of the law and regardless of how much border patrol there is or how many state laws are enacted.

And anyway, who do you think mows the lawns of all those Orange County rich folks. I know their spoiled brat kids aren't doing it.

Funny how Conservatives once again show that they are just as much for Big Government and the worst kind as well, the police state.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Iceman82

The group being singled out is illegal immigrants.. and no one should be driving without a license on them to begin with.

No, you are oversimplifying and you know that you are.

The group that is being singled out are Hispanics whom those with authority can ASSUME MIGHT be illegal.

No one mentioned anything about driving without a license. I never said I was driving.

[enigmadsm]

Originally Posted by HeyHolliday!

The funniest thing about this whole thread is that Illegal Immigration has never been stopped entirely by any one society. Illegals will come regardless of the law and regardless of how much border patrol there is or how many state laws are enacted.

And anyway, who do you think mows the lawns of all those Orange County rich folks. I know their spoiled brat kids aren't doing it.

Funny how Conservatives once again show that they are just as much for Big Government and the worst kind as well, the police state.

I actually know quite a few legitimate CITIZENS who own lawn care businesses. So don't assume that its just the illegals. Who's the one racial profiling now? The police or you??? Just because it may be a hispanic person cutting the grass doesn't make them illegal