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Been absent for a bit, sorry. Lots of good info since I last looked! We looked at an RV show near here a few weeks ago, were shocked at the cheap materials used in some. Most amazing to me was the "enclosed underbelly". Looks like coroplast, the corrugated plastic they make yard signs out of! Interesting info on the 5ers, though. They did seem to be built a bit better. And much more roomy. Looked at the storage, some of the basements were nearly the size of a pickup bed, anyway. Looking more in that direction now.
None of the newer RVs are built as well as they used to be and most use cheaper materials. But that doesn't mean they won't hold up if you maintain them. My 5er has the coroplast underbelly. It's there simply to protect the insulation between the coroplast and the floor and keep debris out of there. Nothing more, really. But I do love it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtandc
Coroplast is exactly what they use which is comical. It's nothing more than a sales gimic (oh its a 4 season rig...lol) but people believe it so they will continue to push it. Kind of like taking off a thin short sleeve t shirt and putting on a thin long sleeve t shirt when it 25 below zero....yeah technically it helps but your still cold and are going to freeze.
Only one massed produced 5th wheel I would own today and that is DRV Mobile Suites. They have been and still are the best massed produced 5th wheel built. Costly when new but like any 5th wheel (which looses it's value faster than any other type camper/rv) very good deals can be found on used models. But they are going go be heavy....I would not use anything less than a class 8 truck if you are going to full time in it....you could get away with a one ton dually if you are just staying local depending on the size and model. You can also find some great deals on some used custom models out there if you look around. Luxe, Spacecraft etc just to name a few....but again if you want a well built 5th wheel you have to put the money into a the proper size truck to pull it and it's going to take a MDT to pull most really well built 5th wheels
Coroplast isn't the insulation on mine. It is what covers the insulation.
I wouldn't be so quick to throw my hat off to DRV MS right now. I am a member of 3 different RV forums and there are quite a few threads going on about quality issues with DRV right now and their unwillingness to help owners. The only two I've seen any sort of praise right now on are the Artic Fox and Northwood models. Most of the rest are mass produced, and as with anything mass produced quality suffers because instead of machines doing the work, people are. And people who are working to crazy schedules will cut corners when they can.
You do not need a Class 8 or even a MDT truck to get a good fifth wheel. Most 1T trucks will pull them just fine and safely.
We are full time RVers, and have quite a few friends that also full time. This means the trailer gets used every day, so they have a lot of experince with their Rv. The models that seem the most popular are the big 5th wheels. They have the most space vs motorhome. Stay away from Jayco. The most popular are Big Horn, Montana, Cougar and Cardinal. The new ones have 4-5 slides, lots of storage and seem to hold up pretty well. Still, plan on some repairs. Fireplaces and refrigerators seem to be troublesome. Expect a plumbing leak or maybe a problem toilet or faucet. You ll need a trck too, so expect to pay 100k for diesel truck and trailer, unless you want to risk older models. Keep in mind, bouncing your house down the road is hard on some things. We even had an electric scale quit on us from the traveling.
"Keep in mind, bouncing your house down the road is hard on some things. We even had an electric scale quit on us from the traveling."....while no rig will ride like a car, "air ride" suspension on the RV axles , and an "air ride" hitch or pin box will also dampen the bouncing and will smooth out the ride tremendously.
As we continue to research the RV life and different types of RV, I am now flip flopped and leaning towards a Diesel Pusher motor Home over a 5th wheel. Here is why:
The good ones use super heavy frames, solid 450 - 500 HP diesel engines and Allison transmissions. Unless you buy one with 200,000 or more miles already, it will outlast you.
They are not as weight reduction oriented. They have huge payload capacities, so you can have more stuff, and can tow a large enclosed trailer with nearly any car that you want in it, plus room for some kayaks bicycles or whatever else you may need. Instead of driving a one ton pick up around you get to drive something cool (like a Jensen Interceptor).
The 5th wheels only get so nice. Then weight and other concerns take over. At the higher ends a big motor-home is better built and nicer than a 5th wheel can be. Of course you are into new pricetags of hundreds of thousands, but they depreciate quickly.
From what I can see both lose value quickly, but Motor-homes lose it faster. A $400,000 motor home will be $150,000 when it is ten years old. If it is well taken care of it is still super nice and has a ton of life left.
When you are traveling, motor-homes are far superior. When you are parked 5th wheel may have an edge, especially with a limited budget. I am told diesel pusher motor homes have far better ride and comfort than any 1 ton truck pulling a 5th wheel. I know the cockpits on the nice ones are amazing. Also if it is pouring rain or cold when you stop or pull into the site, you do not need to get out in the bad weather, just go to sleep.
While traveling, without stopping, you apparently can make food in the kitchen (not cooking, but microwave and general preparation), take a nap in a lazy boy recliner chair or even in a bed, apparently even go to the bathroom (I do not think I will test the bathroom part).
The driver and passenger seat spin around, adding to the living area. Thus, your cockpit becomes part of your living room and it adds a giant window (which is both good and bad from what I can gather). However it makes your living room bigger, which allows your kitchen or bedroom to take up more space.
Nicer motor homes have solid one piece roofs. Far less likely to leak than seamed roofs. I do not know whether any 5th wheels have one piece molded roofs.
Motor homes have a thing called aqua hot. It uses diesel fuel and/or electricity to make tons of hot water. Endless showers and floor radiated heat. I have not seen aqua hot in a 5th wheel, Maybe you can get something similar?
Motor homes have large generators in sound insulated compartments and 100 gallon fuel tanks. While this is a PIA if the genset breaks, it is nice otherwise.
Motorhomes seem to have larger water tanks. This is probably again the weight thing for 5th wheels. It is common to see 140 or larger fresh and up to 100 each grey and black.
If you are towing a 5th wheel and your truck breaks down, you are sol. If you are in a MH towing a car and the MH breaks down, you can drive to a hotel or to get help.
The biggest negatives I see with motorhomes is turning and backing up (backing up being next to impossible while towing a car); and the cost differential. However the cost differential is evened out some long term by the cost of buying and then replacing a truck. Oh also they get considerably less MPG. I imagine jacking one up to work on it is quite a task.
The other thing that set my eyes on motor home (for now), is there are so many complaints about the top of the line 5th wheels, especially DRV right now. It seems a lot more problems with frames and slides, brakes, axles, and other major components being complaint about online.
Now maybe the 5th wheel aficionados will make me change my mind again.
As we continue to research the RV life and different types of RV, I am now flip flopped and leaning towards a Diesel Pusher motor Home over a 5th wheel. Here is why:
The good ones use super heavy frames, solid 450 - 500 HP diesel engines and Allison transmissions. Unless you buy one with 200,000 or more miles already, it will outlast you.
Until you need to make a repair. I worked at a diesel truck shop that worked on RVs. To change the radiator means lifting the cab from the chassis in some cases to get the radiator out. The last one we did cost over $4k just to swap a leaking radiator. To add to that, the diesel engines in these are much larger than the diesel engines in a truck. For example, a set of fuel injectors for my 6.7 Cummins is about $2k plus labor. The cost of injectors on the larger engines can reach $4k+ plus labor.
Another consideration is that most driveable RVs are a conglomeration of different manufacturers. Engine (Cummins ISL, Detroit 60 series, Caterpillar 7.2L, etc..), trans (Allison 3000 series typically)chassis (Freightliner, International, Roadmaster, Prevost, etc...) , etc... so finding parts can be challenging and even more challenging is getting to components to make repairs. It often times requires a lot of disassembly that comes at a cost. See my first statement.
Most 5th wheels are going to use standard components.... Lippert (LCI) pin boxes, Dexter axles, LCI chassis, Stromberg/LCI landing gear, etc. Some really high end units manufacture their frames and such in house, but things like axles are still standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
They are not as weight reduction oriented. They have huge payload capacities, so you can have more stuff, and can tow a large enclosed trailer with nearly any car that you want in it, plus room for some kayaks bicycles or whatever else you may need. Instead of driving a one ton pick up around you get to drive something cool (like a Jensen Interceptor).
To a point.... you still have to consider weight into the fuel efficiency. Some diesel pushers are lucky to break 7-8 mpg. At that point you're going to spend a lot of money in fuel.
Further you have to think of length. Some states (if not all) have an overall length maximum that you cannot exceed. Not usually an issue, but with a large enough diesel pusher it could become an issue. In my state, the overall maximum motorhome length is 45'. If you're towing a trailer the maximum combined length cannot exceed 65'. For example, if you were to purchase a Prevost H3-45 you would be at the maximum length limit with a 20' trailer. If you traveled through Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, New Jersey (to name a few) you would exceed the maximum length allowed by law.
Then comes the issue with turn radius and RV lot sizes. You won't be going to any KOA or state park campground with a 45' DP and a 20' enclosed trailer behind you. You won't fit. Not to mention turning radius. Most DPs have a 45-55 degree turning radius. So you'll need quite a bit of room to make a complete turn. It's much easier to maneuver a truck and trailer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The 5th wheels only get so nice. Then weight and other concerns take over. At the higher ends a big motor-home is better built and nicer than a 5th wheel can be.
I don't know that they're built better necessarily.... they're more highly appointed with gadgetry and such. But.... that high end gadgetry comes with a price tag as well. There are some 5th wheels that are as nicely appointed as diesel pushers. Vanleigh Vilano comes to mind. But you get into the $150k+ price range for those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
When you are traveling, motor-homes are far superior. When you are parked 5th wheel may have an edge, especially with a limited budget. I am told diesel pusher motor homes have far better ride and comfort than any 1 ton truck pulling a 5th wheel. I know the cockpits on the nice ones are amazing. Also if it is pouring rain or cold when you stop or pull into the site, you do not need to get out in the bad weather, just go to sleep.
I've driven quite a few DP's on the highway. While the seats are definitely more comfortable in most cases, they do squeak and rattle quite a lot. A trailer does as well, but since you are in the truck you are isolated from all of that. You do have a point on being able to go to sleep without getting out if need be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
While traveling, without stopping, you apparently can make food in the kitchen (not cooking, but microwave and general preparation), take a nap in a lazy boy recliner chair or even in a bed, apparently even go to the bathroom (I do not think I will test the bathroom part).
Microwaves require around 1000 watts of power to start, which means you HAVE to run the generator while driving to provide 110v AC power. The generators typically pull fuel from your main tank so you'll lose fuel faster. You could cook on the stove using LP, but there are some inherent risks with running LP while in the RV (especially with an open flame as most RV ovens require) as well as the chance that a quick swerve could spill whatever you are cooking. It's possible, but completely unsafe and ill-advised.
The bathroom is fine to use as long as you have water in your fresh water holding tank. The water pump runs on the 12v circuit, so it will come on as required to flush the toilet while travelling. Really no issue there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Nicer motor homes have solid one piece roofs. Far less likely to leak than seamed roofs. I do not know whether any 5th wheels have one piece molded roofs.
Yes, some do. My roof is a rubber membrane as are many newer ones, but the membrane is also 1 piece. So really no issues there. If it does develop a tear or an issue, a quick seal with some DiCor self-leveling lap sealant or Eternabond tape (fantastic stuff) will permanently solve the issue. I actually prefer this membrane because it is cheaper to replace when the roof eventually begins to fail (as all will, both on a coach or a trailer) in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Motor homes have a thing called aqua hot. It uses diesel fuel and/or electricity to make tons of hot water. Endless showers and floor radiated heat. I have not seen aqua hot in a 5th wheel, Maybe you can get something similar?
Yes, aqua hot is available in a 5th wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Motor homes have large generators in sound insulated compartments and 100 gallon fuel tanks. While this is a PIA if the genset breaks, it is nice otherwise.
My first toyhauler 5th wheel had a 5kw Onan generator with a 40 gallon fuel cell. You can also get a generator on many other standard 5th wheels if you want it. It is nice for sure, but does add a level of maintenance to the coach. Really though it's unnecessary unless you intend to boondock most of the time. Otherwise, campgrounds have 30a-50a shore power to plug into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The other thing that set my eyes on motor home (for now), is there are so many complaints about the top of the line 5th wheels, especially DRV right now. It seems a lot more problems with frames and slides, brakes, axles, and other major components being complaint about online.
Now maybe the 5th wheel aficionados will make me change my mind again.
DRV is not considered top of the line any longer since being bought out by THOR. THOR pretty much has cost reductions on their mind, so they lower quality to achieve it. If you really want to look at custom high end built 5th wheels, you will need to look into a line not owned by Thor. But... my Keystone is a Thor product as was my previous Heartland and the quality wasn't that bad. Minor things happened, but those same brand of appliances and parts are installed on almost all RVs so it could happen on any of them. DRVs main issue is that they designed a tubular frame that is weak and prone to cracking instead of using the standard I-Beam frame that most 5ers use. Lippert builds most frames (unless you go high end) including those on the DRV, but the manufacturer provides the spec that they build to. One benefit to using a company such as Lippert is parts availability. They are so common that you can find parts almost anywhere (landing gear motors, landing gear, pin boxes, etc....
New Horizons, Luxe, Outdoors RV, Vanleigh, etc.... are a few high end 5th wheels that pop up in my head.
All in all though, I can't really say that one is better than the other in terms of diesel pusher over a trailer. You just need to understand the pros and cons of each and decide what fits your lifestyle and budget better. More important to understand is that they are all going to fail and break at some point. The key is to having a good manufacturer who stands behind their product and a good dealer who stands behind their service.
This is really helpful. Possibly the most helpful response I have ever gotten on CD (and with no condescension or derision, not trying to tell me I am stupid - rare on CD lately).
A couple of questions if you do not mind.
What do you think of the DD Series 60 engine? My dad was on the design team and was/is very proud of that engine.
Can you run a DP on french fry oil? (Not sure where you can get 100 gallons of french fry oil, but fuel may become crazy expensive int he next ten or twenty years).
Cant the inverter in a MH run the microwave? Most of them have at least 2000 watt inverters. Some have 4000 (maybe that is peak output rather than constant draw, not sure).
Is a 42' 5th wheel with a truck any shorter/better as far as being legal in all states than a 42' M.H. pulling a 20' trailer.
What kind of MPG does an F-450 pulling a 30,000 pound (or 20,000 pounds) trailer get? I would be surprised if it is significantly more than 7-8. But then gas is usually cheaper than Diesel (just not right now it isn't - at least not here).
It seems the most common DP engine is a 380 hp. some have 400, 450, and even 500. Assuming the weight of the MH is simlar, do you know what engine I would likely want to pull a 20' enclosed trailer with a 3500 pound car in it?
I am concerned about North Carolina legal limits with either a MH or 5th wheel. There are a lot of cool places and people that I want to visit. I am also concerned about not fitting into parks in anything over 36 feet. On the other hand my wife is really adamant about two bathrooms.
If you pull a trailer with a MH, can you just unload the tow car, unhook the trailer, park the RV and then use the tow car to pull the trailer into place? Frankly it seems like you could do that upon exiting the freeway at most locations, Just separate the trailer, pull it with the car and have greater maneuverability. Maybe a little bit of a PIA, but it seems like it would be worth it. I would think a Jeep or a Jensen Interceptor could easily pull a 20' enclosed trailed that is basically empty, especially since it woudl only be off the freeway.
With a 5th wheel, I am concerned about running out of space/weight. I want to maintain some of my hobbies and i would like to carry two kayaks, two bicycles, my Atlatl equipment and a bale of straw or two and my throwing axes/knives and a slice of log target in addition to the normal stuff you might carry. I am also concerned a 5th wheel cannot carry enough water to boondock for a week or two. You apparently have a nice 5th wheel, do you run into space/weight limit problems frequently?
Are there diesel pushers that the radiators are easy to get to? I know cooling system leaks are a common problem, I would like to be able to handle those myself.
Thank you for the list of better 5th wheels. the one we end up buying, will likely be one that is being made now or next year, so it is good to know which ones are good now.
We have a lot of time to decide which style (5th wheel or MH). We will likely buy an older MH to experiment with, both to see what problems it has and also to see how we do living in a tiny home like that. This will help us decide between a MH and a 5th wheel. Frankly right now, I am very excited about the tiny home idea even if it did not allow you to move to a new location every month. No lawn chores, no pool chores, no fallen trees to cut up, no 18 rooms to clean and fix, no carpenter bees to fight!. Yet we still get to live on the waterfront - at least often enough to be happy.
It is not so much gadgetry as heavier construction and more important, wife things like a bigger shower, larger water tanks, more space/seats in the living room because you incorporate the seats/cab. We do not want or want to pay for gold plated faucets, or granite counter-tops, but we do not want pressboard and plastic either.
My wife theoretically likes the heavier weight of the MH because it does not shake around as much when you move around inside or when it is windy. She is excited about this idea but has some particular concerns (two bathroom - if "I am sick, I do not want to run in where someone is taking a shower to throw up." "I do not like it to shake around a in a big storm or when were are moving around inside.")
For me the biggest + of a MH right now is I am pretty excited about the idea of being able to use any car I want as our primary vehicle rather than being tied to a lumbering F-450. (I have always wanted a Jensen Interceptor Convertible - if we sell the house and buy an RV I will finally be able to afford one, when we got to wildernessy places we can bring a jeep instead).
thanks!. I wish I could give you ten reputation points, but it only lets me give one.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 05-23-2018 at 01:34 PM..
This is really helpful. Possibly the most helpful response I have ever gotten on CD (and with no condescension or derision, not trying to tell me I am stupid - rare on CD lately).
I'm by far not the most knowledgeable person in the RV community, for sure. But I have learned some things over the years mostly from trial and error or from others who share their knowledge. So I like the idea of being able to pass that on to others in the community. We all have to learn from somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
A couple of questions if you do not mind.
What do you think of the DD Series 60 engine? My dad was on the design team and was/is very proud of that engine.
I've seen a lot of these through the shop over the years. All-in-all they're good engines and reliable enough that even fire trucks run them. Earlier models had issues with spun bearings because of how low they idle, but that got resolved. Outside of some EGR issues like most diesels with EGRs have, it's pretty reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Can you run a DP on french fry oil? (Not sure where you can get 100 gallons of french fry oil, but fuel may become crazy expensive int he next ten or twenty years).
Can you? Probably. Should you? I don't know that I can confidently answer that. I personally wouldn't because of how finicky injectors can be, but that doesn't mean you can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Cant the inverter in a MH run the microwave? Most of them have at least 2000 watt inverters. Some have 4000 (maybe that is peak output rather than constant draw, not sure).
The short answer is no. An inverter may be 2000 watt inverters but the inverter only powers items on the 12v circuit. Lights, water pump, etc.... The microwave runs on 110v power that is wired into the shore power.
The long answer is that you can modify it to run off the inverter, IF you have enough batteries to handle the draw. A microwave can pull 150-200 Amp Hours from a battery in a very rapid period of time. A Trojan 24TMX deep cycle battery only provides 85 AH of power. So you would need to make sure your batteries are deep cycle, and that the amp hours they provide are sufficient enough to run the microwave and potentially do a bit of rewiring (depends on how the rig was designed). Keep in mind though that the leveling jacks, stabilizers, awning, lights, water pump, radio, etc... all run on that same 12v circuit. So draining the batteries down "could" mean that nothing else will work when it's time to set up. It would be a huge strain, but some boondockers have successfully done it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Is a 42' 5th wheel with a truck any shorter/better as far as being legal in all states than a 42' M.H. pulling a 20' trailer.
Depends on the rig. A 42' 5th wheel is measured from nose to tail. Don't forget that 3-5 ft of the trailer sits over the bed of the truck. My 2012 Ram 2500 crew cab is 19' long. Since there is an overlap between the truck and trailer, the total rig length would be roughly 55' long. A 42' RV with a 20' trailer would be 62' long. Legality depends on the state. Some limit length to 65', 60', and down to 50'. So even the 5th wheel combo wouldn't be legal in some localities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
What kind of MPG does an F-450 pulling a 30,000 pound (or 20,000 pounds) trailer get? I would be surprised if it is significantly more than 7-8. But then gas is usually cheaper than Diesel (just not right now it isn't - at least not here).
I can't speak to the F450, but I can tell you that my Ram 2500 pulling a 35' 5th wheel at 11k lbs (total weight of almost 20k lbs gets about 11.5 mpg on flat ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
It seems the most common DP engine is a 380 hp. some have 400, 450, and even 500. Assuming the weight of the MH is simlar, do you know what engine I would likely want to pull a 20' enclosed trailer with a 3500 pound car in it?
Don't look at horsepower on a diesel. Look at torque. That is where pulling power comes from. There are calculators online to help you make that decision. Every situation is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I am concerned about North Carolina legal limits with either a MH or 5th wheel. There are a lot of cool places and people that I want to visit. I am also concerned about not fitting into parks in anything over 36 feet. On the other hand my wife is really adamant about two bathrooms.
I'm really not sure on the NC law. Should be easy enough to find though. You "can" get two bathrooms in a 35' +/- length 5th wheel. The bonus is that with my 35' once I unhook the truck the camper fits in the spots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
If you pull a trailer with a MH, can you just unload the tow car, unhook the trailer, park the RV and then use the tow car to pull the trailer into place? Frankly it seems like you could do that upon exiting the freeway at most locations, Just separate the trailer, pull it with the car and have greater maneuverability. Maybe a little bit of a PIA, but it seems like it would be worth it. I would think a Jeep or a Jensen Interceptor could easily pull a 20' enclosed trailed that is basically empty, especially since it woudl only be off the freeway.
I guess theoretically you could, assuming the tow car has a hitch and is rated to pull that heavy of a trailer. Some rv spots only allow one other vehicle there so that is something to consider. They may not allow a second trailer on the site if it's not large enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
With a 5th wheel, I am concerned about running out of space/weight. I want to maintain some of my hobbies and i would like to carry two kayaks, two bicycles, my Atlatl equipment and a bale of straw or two and my throwing axes/knives and a slice of log target in addition to the normal stuff you might carry. I am also concerned a 5th wheel cannot carry enough water to boondock for a week or two. You apparently have a nice 5th wheel, do you run into space/weight limit problems frequently?
If you looked at a Toyhauler, you would likely solve all of the problems you've mentioned.
My current 5er has a 43 gallon fresh water tank. We spent an entire weekend boondocking with a total of 6 adults in it (showers and such) and with water conservation we still had half a tank when we got home. Weight IS an issue to consider though, so we monitor what we pack. Space really isn't much of an issue for us nor has weight been so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Are there diesel pushers that the radiators are easy to get to? I know cooling system leaks are a common problem, I would like to be able to handle those myself.
Not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Thank you for the list of better 5th wheels. the one we end up buying, will likely be one that is being made now or next year, so it is good to know which ones are good now.
You got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
It is not so much gadgetry as heavier construction and more important, wife things like a bigger shower, larger water tanks, more space/seats in the living room because you incorporate the seats/cab. We do not want or want to pay for gold plated faucets, or granite counter-tops, but we do not want pressboard and plastic either.
As an FYI.... our camper has a 6/5" clearance to the ceiling and enough room for us to both stand inside comfortably and to shower without cracking our elbows on the walls. It even has a bench to sit on. They've come a long way. You can get a rear living 5th wheel with two couches, plus a dining table that seats at least 4 pretty easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
My wife theoretically likes the heavier weight of the MH because it does not shake around as much when you move around inside or when it is windy. She is excited about this idea but has some particular concerns (two bathroom - if "I am sick, I do not want to run in where someone is taking a shower to throw up." "I do not like it to shake around a in a big storm or when were are moving around inside.")
They make addons that easily remedies the movement. Most higher end models come with them already installed.
[/quote]thanks!. I wish I could give you ten reputation points, but it only lets me give one.[/quote]
Hope it helps!
"The short answer is no. An inverter may be 2000 watt inverters but the inverter only powers items on the 12v circuit. Lights, water pump, etc.... The microwave runs on 110v power that is wired into the shore power.
The long answer is that you can modify it to run off the inverter, IF you have enough batteries to handle the draw."
Our van has a 2500 watt continuous/4000 watt peak 120v AC inverter that runs from the alternator power (for road trips and inflating mattresses when car camping, it can even run a hair dryer while underway - that was important when our 3 daughters were all at home). Is there any reason you could not use something like that to microwave in an RV while on the road?
"My current 5er has a 43 gallon fresh water tank. We spent an entire weekend boondocking with a total of 6 adults in it (showers and such) and with water conservation we still had half a tank when we got home."
I was thinking the ones with 100 gallons were insufficient for 2 people. I guess we need to experiment. It seems like most people on forums report running out of room in the grey water tank before they run out of fresh water.
BTW, why not dump the fresh water (or most of it) when you go home to lighten up and save gas?
"* * *"
The toy haulers I have seen never have 1.5 bathrooms. A necessity according to my wife. Plus you lose quite a bit of living space. Maybe there is some room in the truck bed. It may have to be light but bulky stuff. I think we could mount kayaks on top of the trailer and bikes on the back if we had to. Kayaks are the biggest hassle I think. When I put kayaks or a canoe on top of my pick up, they vibrate like heck and really mess up wind resistance too.
I like the rear living 5ers with a giant picture window in the back. That is probably my favorite floor plan I have seen so far. My wife really liked one we saw that had an outside door to the half bath. I am not sure whether that would be important enough to be a critical factor though. It might reduce tracking mud in on wet days, or sand at beach locations.
Our 37' DRV and our singled Kenworth were 65' long. The KW had the ability to store all the heavy tools I wanted to carry, and with a small engine, we got 10 mpg. We traveled with 2 Harleys, 2 kayaks, full size BBQ, a jewelers bench, woodworking tools, sewing machine for quilting....in a 20' cargo trailer....pulled by our retired puller, a 1 ton Dodge. I pulled the RV, my wife pulled the cargo trailer. In our 8 years on the road we only ran into a couple of places where our extra vehicles were an issue, but for the most part we stayed out of RV parks. A good serviceable big truck, like a KW, Pete, or Volvo can be had for $20K,....modified, ready to pull with an air hitch maybe $25K....far less than a new light duty truck like a 350/3500, and your horsepower, torque and braking concerns are a thing of the past. If you've not yet spent time on the Escapees forum site, it's a wonderful place to ask questions/learn from long time fulltimers.
You've laid out some good points in favor of a motorhome....but the biggest downside for a good diesel pusher is cost. Keep looking and asking questions....before you buy.
Our van has a 2500 watt continuous/4000 watt peak 120v AC inverter that runs from the alternator power (for road trips and inflating mattresses when car camping, it can even run a hair dryer while underway - that was important when our 3 daughters were all at home). Is there any reason you could not use something like that to microwave in an RV while on the road?
I was in a bit of a rush yesterday when I answered this, so I'll go into some more detail. A 1000W microwave needs 1000W to cook, not how much it needs to run. The actual draw may be closer to 1500W, so at least a 2000W inverter would be required in that instance. And you would have to ensure that nothing else is drawing from the inverter. You can quickly burn up an inverter or wiring if the breaker fails.
Next to consider are sine waves. There are pure sine waves (aka clean power) and modified sine waves (aka dirty power...because it modulates). A microwave can technically operate on both but performance is different. To give you an idea... if you run on modified sine waves the microwave can be slower to cook, the timer might be off, and it could be noisier. It IS possible to damage a microwave on modified sine waves. But modified sine waves require less draw from your batteries.
The alternator in the coach "should" charge both the engine batteries and the house battery banks using an isolator to separate them during a discharge cycle (meaning it discharges the house batteries but leaves the engine batteries unharmed). Many RV manufacturers will warn you against draining down the house batteries past 50% and attempting to recharge them with the alternator. It can fry the alternator. You should be using the generator to recharge the house batteries. So using the microwave is still risky if it draws too much current. Stuff like a hair dryer may work.... but it's possible that you've shortened the life expectancy of that equipment. The more sensitive the internal components, the more risk of damage to them on the wrong inverter.
In closing, you have to know what type of inverter you have (not all RVs come with pure sine wave inverters), how many watts the microwave needs to function properly, and you have to monitor the microwave usage very closely. So in theory it can be done, but it's risky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I was thinking the ones with 100 gallons were insufficient for 2 people. I guess we need to experiment. It seems like most people on forums report running out of room in the grey water tank before they run out of fresh water.
BTW, why not dump the fresh water (or most of it) when you go home to lighten up and save gas?
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It depends on your usage. We monitor our usage very closely. To conserve water our showers are navy showers. Get wet and turn the water off. Lather up. Turn the water on to rinse off. Turn the water off. We also have an Oxygenics showerhead which gives you maximum water pressure with minimal water. It feels like a house shower, but uses 1/3 less water. Since our RV has a 6 gallon hot water heater, long hot showers aren't realistic anyhow. You get about 5 minutes of hot water before it needs to reheat, so we use it sparingly. The toilet doesn't use much at all.
We use disposable plates, silverware, and cups. We fill the coffee pot with bottled water. Those sorts of things. 100 gallons will go a long way with care. We have two 39 gallon gray water tanks. One is just for the kitchen sink, the other for the shower and bathroom sink. The shower tank usually fills first. Some are plumbed together so that you have a larger capacity.
I typically do drain the fresh water tank, however the park we were in prohibited it so we took it home. Since water weighs roughly 8.5 lbs per gallon, we only carried home 183 lbs. There wasn't enough weight to make a difference with my truck.
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The toy haulers I have seen never have 1.5 bathrooms. A necessity according to my wife. Plus you lose quite a bit of living space. Maybe there is some room in the truck bed. It may have to be light but bulky stuff. I think we could mount kayaks on top of the trailer and bikes on the back if we had to. Kayaks are the biggest hassle I think. When I put kayaks or a canoe on top of my pick up, they vibrate like heck and really mess up wind resistance too.
You lose a little bit in living room space as far as most will have only a couch in the living room. However, the lower bed in the toyhauler area also has two happijac couches in the rear. But there are 5th wheel TH that still have the large living area.
The Grand Design Momentum comes to mind.... The garage is UNDER the rear master bedroom. Great if you need some garage space for a golf cart, kayak, motorcycle, etc... https://www.rvingplanet.com/mfg-gran...th-wheel/376th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I like the rear living 5ers with a giant picture window in the back. That is probably my favorite floor plan I have seen so far. My wife really liked one we saw that had an outside door to the half bath. I am not sure whether that would be important enough to be a critical factor though. It might reduce tracking mud in on wet days, or sand at beach locations.
My last RV had the large picture window in the back. It didn't work well for us sleeping 4 people all the time mainly because we have to kids that need some space. Since we no longer needed a toyhauler, the final decision rested on a bunkhouse. We have the Keystone Hideout 298BHDS... But your mileage will vary. You have to decide what fits your needs.
The access door to a half bath is nice, no doubt. But..... honestly you'll still track in dirt. We opted to get one with a central vacuum system instead so that we can make clean up quick at the beach.
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