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Nat - and A/J can correct me if i'm wrong but I think what he meant was because I've travelled quite extensively, I should be able to observe how weak our culture and identity is in comparison to other nations. I did mention in response that there are plenty of nations that are very fractured and their sense of culture and identity can be more regional in nature than national.
On another note - the Raptors beat the Heat - woohoo, lets blame Toronto!
This is more along the lines of what I was thinking.
I'd say that most fractious countries like Spain still have a stronger national mainstream culture. Sure the Catalans Basques Galicians etc are uppity and keen to distinguish themselves, but the Spanish heartland culture is still very strong unique and unmistakable.
We have our own industry. It's just small and competing against two giants. Britain and the USA. Australia does ok, but not like in the 1980's.
It's easier for Quebec, since they really aren't competing with anyone except France. Successful Quebecois films are considered secondary films compared to the mainstream ones. It seems to make French Canadians happy mostly, so that's a positive I suppose.
I don't know what you mean about secondary films. Some Quebec films can outgun Hollywood blockbusters at the box office here.
When Titanic was released, at one point Quebec was the only place in the western world where the film was not in first place.
Which apparently prompted the movie's producer to slam his fist on the table and say "WTF is (insert name of Quebec film)?!?!"
I can't remember the movie but will try to find the name.
This is more along the lines of what I was thinking.
I'd say that most fractious countries like Spain still have a stronger national mainstream culture. Sure the Catalans Basques Galicians etc are uppity and keen to distinguish themselves, but the Spanish heartland culture is still very strong unique and unmistakable.
I don't think this necessarily makes most Canadians any less proud of being Canadian. Culture and Identity isn't something easily measured. I get what you're saying but on the flip side i'd counter that when push comes to shove, most Canadians are very happy to identify being Canadian either inside the country or outside of it. This doesn't mean we don't have our issues! I've been accused of and made guilty by association to certain things simply because of where i'm from in these very forums by other Canadian and I find it disturbing.
Getting more to your point - I'm not going to say that it wouldn't be nice if we had a stronger native culture or that it wouldn't make us more interesting, I just don't think its necessarily as weak as some may make it out to be and i'm not sure this is something that is the be all and end of a strong nation. That said, yes Canada probably doesn't rank highly in the world when it comes to having a strong and united culture or I might add good cuisine (which I think is actually the truly abysmal aspect of Canadiana). Our values and our laws speak volumes even if our cuisine doesn't. Every nation has to pick its battles - perhaps there are other metrics of greatness we can all be proud of that our nation excels at that makes wearing a maple leaf more meaningful than having some kick butt national dishes or crap popular culture examples.
I don't think this necessarily makes most Canadians any less proud of being Canadian. Culture and Identity isn't something easily measured. I get what you're saying but on the flip side i'd counter that when push comes to shove, most Canadians are very happy to identify being Canadian either inside the country or outside of it. This doesn't mean we don't have our issues! I've been accused of and made guilty by association to certain things simply because of where i'm from in these very forums by other Canadian and I find it disturbing.
Getting more to your point - I'm not going to say that it wouldn't be nice if we had a stronger native culture or that it wouldn't make us more interesting, I just don't think its necessarily as weak as some may make it out to be and i'm not sure this is something that is the be all and end of a strong nation. That said, yes Canada probably doesn't rank highly in the world when it comes to having a strong and united culture or I might add good cuisine (which I think is actually the truly abysmal aspect of Canadiana). Our values and our laws speak volumes even if our cuisine doesn't. Every nation has to pick its battles - perhaps there are other metrics of greatness we can all be proud of that our nation excels at that makes wearing a maple leaf more meaningful than having some kick butt national dishes or crap popular culture examples.
I guess I should have used "seems" instead of "feels". Would have been clearer.
I'd never dispute that most Canadians "feel" Canadian in the same way other nationalities feel about their countries.
I guess I should have used "seems" instead of "feels". Would have been clearer.
I'd never dispute that most Canadians "feel" Canadian in the same way other nationalities feel about their countries.
Fair enough - in any event I think I answered your question. I just wanted to make it clear that sometimes you think things are just great in other countries until you visit and talk to locals etc. The concept of a strong national identity isn't necessarily as pervasive as some may think. I've learned that for sure in my travels.. I could tell you some things about Venezuelan culture but won't bore you other than its more Lady Gaga than you think unfortunately.
Now to food - would I rather Canada have the cuisine firepower that is Thai - damned right but I think i'll take our laws and governance over Thailand
Wouldn't it be cool to combine the strengths of various nations to create the 'ideal' country..
Fair enough - in any event I think I answered your question. I just wanted to make it clear that sometimes you think things are just great in other countries until you visit and talk to locals etc. The concept of a strong national identity isn't necessarily as pervasive as some may think. I've learned that for sure in my travels.. I could tell you some things about Venezuelan culture but won't bore you other than its more Lady Gaga than you think unfortunately.
Now to food - would I rather Canada have the cuisine firepower that is Thai - damned right but I think i'll take our laws and governance over Thailand
Wouldn't it be cool to combine the strengths of various nations to create the 'ideal' country..
I believe multi-culturalism was perhaps unconsciously intended to do just that. What a melting pot would probably be more accurately called a "crucible".
I believe multi-culturalism was perhaps unconsciously intended to do just that. What a melting pot would probably be more accurately called a "crucible".
Well - as a person who has grown up in perhaps one of the most multicultural parts of a very multicultural city, I can say there are truly many wonderful examples of growing up in such an environment. Everything from learning to respect someone who is different from you and actually being comfortable with them.. Integrating with them and enjoying experiences etc is enriching..
I think in another forum we even examined the impact on a native culture and there are some valid points to that. I largely feel the pro's outweigh the cons but sure - there are challenges to it. In any event to what you said - its tough to recreate the strong culture of a place once it leaves its root.
An example - I have yet to find a bowl of Tom Yum soup that I can find in Thailand anywhere else outside Thailand.. I dream about that soup almost every single day lol..
I'd say that most fractious countries like Spain still have a stronger national mainstream culture. Sure the Catalans Basques Galicians etc are uppity and keen to distinguish themselves, but the Spanish heartland culture is still very strong unique and unmistakable.
Right. Spaniards would probably be able to describe what their identity is about, even without going to comparisons with their neighbours' like France's and Italy's. And keep in mind that culture and identity go much further than movies and television and into how people live their daily lives, how they interact with each other, how they perceive history, etc.
Canadian identity certainly exists, but it seems hard to define and when Canadians (or Americans) try to do it they often seem to do so explicitly or implicitly in comparison to American identity, sometimes by means of vague values. Yes, I know, elephant in the room and everything, but it is something unusual, and possibly the main defining element of Canadian culture.
Somehow this thread on Quora (about "untold truths about Canada") was in my email feed today. First paragraph of the first answer:
Quote:
Being "Canadian" is as much about respecting diversity as anything else and that often makes people think that there isn't a distinct Canadian Culture or sense of nationalism. Most Canadians are proud of being Canadian, we're just too polite to flaunt it.
I'm sorry, but that's not a national identity. Yes, national values do exist, and "respecting diversity is something we value" can be one of those, but they don't define a national identity, since many other nations can say the same. Sure, okay, "diversity" and "polite", but really, what is an Canadian?
So yes, Canada is unusual in this regard, and some Canadians don't seem to have a very good grasp of how unusual it is. I expect somebody to tell me that having one's national identity being defined in terms of "respecting diversity" and "being polite" is a feature, not a bug, and I can certainly agree that it's not a bad thing, but that really isn't how most nationalities would define themselves. And it's also not how I as a Quebecer (living in Winnipeg, but still forever a Quebecer wherever I'll be living) would define my national identity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
I don't know what you mean about secondary films. Some Quebec films can outgun Hollywood blockbusters at the box office here.
I'd say that this might also be related to how Canadians don't exactly realize how unusual Canadian national identity is. Most nations have their own national popular culture and that's perfectly fine. But a Canadian artist who's known only in Canada and not in the US and thus worldwide only has "regional" appeal and so is secondary. That's not the case for Quebec where you can have massive cultural impact (and even in other French-speaking countries) but still have nobody in the rest of Canada-America know about you. Does this make you secondary?
Honestly, while Canadians seem to think Quebec and its people are the weirdest thing ever and impossible to understand, what strikes me is how not unusual at all a nation Quebec is. It's very much a typical Western nation, with values similar to other Western nations but also its own distinctiveness. It's Canada that strikes me personally as strange in this regard. Not bad, I hasten to say, but different from other Western nations, including the other ones built around immigration, in how it defines itself.
^^^
I don't think anyone in here stated that Canada's identity is solely its multiculturalism or its diversity. Perhaps to some on another forum but in here I don't think so.. In that regard I'd say we are all in agreement. There is also agreement, even by your very post that you admit the country has an identity. So if we have established that multiculturalism isn't the be all and end all of an identity and the country has an identity - even if it might not be as strong as what it is in other nations i'm not sure what you trying to bring to the discussion? The point I was making earlier was that the national identities that A/J was referring to may not be so 'national' and more regional in nature which is probably particularly true in the case of Canada.
So what more would you like to see to strengthen what is our national identity? A unique national bowl of soup? A unique national dance?
I'd actually like any nations citizens to define their national 'identity' - its a tough question for members of any nation without them sounding like they are part of the borg collective.
You guys should get back on topic, eh? None of this has anything to do aboot the subject, ya hosers.
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