Why are Canadians so touchy about criticism of their Healthcare (to buy, tax)
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It happens because generally the "facts" that are expressed that the criticism is based on are completely incorrect. I welcome any critique of the Canadian health system but only when it's at least half way true or relevant.
As one who spent a fair number of times transporting my Mom to a chemo facility in Bellevue WA, I had a lot of contact in the waiting room with Canadian family/friends of patients there. Their consistent story was that they could not get timely medical care back home so getting diagnosis and treatment in the USA was their only viable option. Quality of the medical services didn't appear to be the issue, it was the availability of those services to them when time was of essence. There were some days when it appeared that there were only a couple of US patients in treatment there and the majority were Canadians.
Also, I had a good friend from the Vancouver area whose sister had knee and hip problems. The Canadian system placed her on a waiting list for arthroscopic surgery, but with a very long lead time before she could get it done. Before that knee was operated on, she spent many months in a lot of pain and was disabled to the point where she couldn't work and lost her job. Additionally, the knee was damaged beyond the lesser surgery repair and then needed replacement. With that knee failing, she overloaded her other knee and that one also was found to need replacement, but that was a new problem which had to get into the system for resolution on another schedule. The lady was out of work for three years before she got that 2nd knee replaced. By then, she was forced to take an early medical retirement at much less value than if she'd have been able to work those years with only a minimal time off for the needed surgeries while finishing out her years to a normal retirement. That's on top of all the pain that she went through due to the delays in receiving treatment.
Another friend here in the US saw his Mom move to Calgary after a marriage to a Canadian fellow. She paid her taxes in Canada and was fully enrolled in the system there. After a few years, she retired and started to have some fairly common aging symptoms ... arthritis, hypertension, some malignant tumors (skin cancer), and intestinal problems. She, too, was rarely seen in a timely manner in the Canadian system. My buddy wound up flying to Calgary (private pilot) numerous times and transported her to Denver where she was promptly seen, diagnosed, sent on to specialists promptly, and received treatment. These were noteworthy trips because she stayed with him while in town and they usually didn't get along very well after the first few days ... so getting her treated and returned home as quickly as possible was a priority for him. It was only under the duress of her needing and not receiving timely medical attention in Canada that forced him to go to all that expense (he picked up his Mom's US medical bills out of pocket) and travel. One of the US doc's opined that if she hadn't had the quick diagnosis and surgery/radiation/chemo here when she did, that she'd have passed on within the year with the rate of progression of her cancers. She lived another 8 years ... dealing with her other medical issues, here in the US when the Canadian system simply didn't respond in at timely manner. Yet she still paid her taxes to support that health care which didn't meet her needs for years.
Yet another friend was injured (perhaps subsequent to a heart attack) on a fishing trip in a remote area of Canada. Transported out of the area to the nearest large town, they didn't have access to the lone MRI diagnostic equipment because the unit was booked up for the next weeks and the docs didn't think he needed priority emergency access to it. His other injury (a torn up clavicle and shoulder from his falling down) masked the underlying cardiac problem He had to go to another city where they could get him into the MRI schedule in a few days; transported by ambulance because the one hospital would not release him from medical care. Turned out that he'd had a heart attack and had the docs at the first hospital had a prompt MRI scan of him, they'd have known for certain and begun treatment for that. Instead, he sustained further heart injury due to the non-treatment and ultimately required surgery that might not have been needed with prompt diagnosis in the first day of medical care. We were told that the Canadian health care system has only a very limited number of these types of diagnostic machines so there's a wait to get to them compared to their use and access here in the USA. I appreciate that Canada health system gets a better ROI with a high use rate on their machines compared to having to amortize the costs of lesser use rates here in the US for these expensive machines, but when it's your health being compromised by lack of access to the diagnostics, that's a problem ... in my view.
It's the national inferiority complex in full bloom. Healthcare is the one thing that Canadians are taught to believe that they can beat Americans at. They don't want to hear criticism of any kind from an American because it's like being criticized by the guy who always wins the race. That criticism pops the fantasy bubble that insulates them from the reality of Canada's mediocrity.
Pointing out that the Canadian federal government has codified some nebulous policies that are interpreted at a provincial level doesn't tell us much except that healthcare in America is more decentralized than in Canada. This is why the system of Quebec is very different from Ontario, in fact, so different (and broken) that it deters some people from moving there. Similarly in the US, my "free" surgery in Maryland wouldn't have been possible in Florida. There is little reason to make country vs. country comparisons beyond recognizing that Canadian healthcare is more centralized.
Beyond that, it is an exercise in petty Canadian nationalism and chest thumping (we "beat" the Americans!) rather than logic and objective assessment.
Quebec is different in many aspects. However where do they not follow the Canada Health Act?
The similarities of Universal Healthcare in Canada are there BECAUSE of the Canada Health Act. To grab onto the differences between provinces is ignoring the big picture.
Making country to country comparisons doesn't mean equating the systems. Comparing means noting the differences, the strengths and weaknesses. So once again, if someone posts BS about our system it will be challenged.
This idea that Canadians clarifying and challenging some of the gross misrepresentations that some Americans, including US politicians, seem to have ,is not chest thumping.
It's the national inferiority complex in full bloom. Healthcare is the one thing that Canadians are taught to believe that they can beat Americans at. They don't want to hear criticism of any kind from an American because it's like being criticized by the guy who always wins the race. That criticism pops the fantasy bubble that insulates them from the reality of Canada's mediocrity.
It's like you haven't understood this thread. It's not about Canadians beating Americans, it's about people, mostly Americans, who post here with false information about our system, and Canadians correcting them.
However, I know it makes you feel better to jump onto your anti-Canada bandwagon every chance you get.
It is getting boring.
As one who spent a fair number of times transporting my Mom to a chemo facility in Bellevue WA, I had a lot of contact in the waiting room with Canadian family/friends of patients there. Their consistent story was that they could not get timely medical care back home so getting diagnosis and treatment in the USA was their only viable option. Quality of the medical services didn't appear to be the issue, it was the availability of those services to them when time was of essence. There were some days when it appeared that there were only a couple of US patients in treatment there and the majority were Canadians.
Also, I had a good friend from the Vancouver area whose sister had knee and hip problems. The Canadian system placed her on a waiting list for arthroscopic surgery, but with a very long lead time before she could get it done. Before that knee was operated on, she spent many months in a lot of pain and was disabled to the point where she couldn't work and lost her job. Additionally, the knee was damaged beyond the lesser surgery repair and then needed replacement. With that knee failing, she overloaded her other knee and that one also was found to need replacement, but that was a new problem which had to get into the system for resolution on another schedule. The lady was out of work for three years before she got that 2nd knee replaced. By then, she was forced to take an early medical retirement at much less value than if she'd have been able to work those years with only a minimal time off for the needed surgeries while finishing out her years to a normal retirement. That's on top of all the pain that she went through due to the delays in receiving treatment.
Another friend here in the US saw his Mom move to Calgary after a marriage to a Canadian fellow. She paid her taxes in Canada and was fully enrolled in the system there. After a few years, she retired and started to have some fairly common aging symptoms ... arthritis, hypertension, some malignant tumors (skin cancer), and intestinal problems. She, too, was rarely seen in a timely manner in the Canadian system. My buddy wound up flying to Calgary (private pilot) numerous times and transported her to Denver where she was promptly seen, diagnosed, sent on to specialists promptly, and received treatment. These were noteworthy trips because she stayed with him while in town and they usually didn't get along very well after the first few days ... so getting her treated and returned home as quickly as possible was a priority for him. It was only under the duress of her needing and not receiving timely medical attention in Canada that forced him to go to all that expense (he picked up his Mom's US medical bills out of pocket) and travel. One of the US doc's opined that if she hadn't had the quick diagnosis and surgery/radiation/chemo here when she did, that she'd have passed on within the year with the rate of progression of her cancers. She lived another 8 years ... dealing with her other medical issues, here in the US when the Canadian system simply didn't respond in at timely manner. Yet she still paid her taxes to support that health care which didn't meet her needs for years.
Yet another friend was injured (perhaps subsequent to a heart attack) on a fishing trip in a remote area of Canada. Transported out of the area to the nearest large town, they didn't have access to the lone MRI diagnostic equipment because the unit was booked up for the next weeks and the docs didn't think he needed priority emergency access to it. His other injury (a torn up clavicle and shoulder from his falling down) masked the underlying cardiac problem He had to go to another city where they could get him into the MRI schedule in a few days; transported by ambulance because the one hospital would not release him from medical care. Turned out that he'd had a heart attack and had the docs at the first hospital had a prompt MRI scan of him, they'd have known for certain and begun treatment for that. Instead, he sustained further heart injury due to the non-treatment and ultimately required surgery that might not have been needed with prompt diagnosis in the first day of medical care. We were told that the Canadian health care system has only a very limited number of these types of diagnostic machines so there's a wait to get to them compared to their use and access here in the USA. I appreciate that Canada health system gets a better ROI with a high use rate on their machines compared to having to amortize the costs of lesser use rates here in the US for these expensive machines, but when it's your health being compromised by lack of access to the diagnostics, that's a problem ... in my view.
Got anything to say about the hundreds of thousands of folks who may have died during what I assume would have been the same time period your anecdotes are about.
And it isn't about the ROI rate for MRI equipment; never was, It's about all those machines in the U.S. being used for the WRONG diagnostic reasons.
Got anything to say about the hundreds of thousands of folks who may have died during what I assume would have been the same time period your anecdotes are about.
And it isn't about the ROI rate for MRI equipment; never was, It's about all those machines in the U.S. being used for the WRONG diagnostic reasons.
Canadians get denied healthcare treatments due to pre-existing conditions all the time. Everyday. It's routine, because our finite resources are rationed out to people. It's like we have to stand in line, Soviet-style, but only if we're entitled to a ration--have to have your paperwork ready to prove it.
People get bumped off waiting lists, or moved down on waiting lists, everyday, due to pre-existing conditions. The point is that in the U.S., you have a right to buy treatment privately if you can afford it. In Canada, you either make the cut or you and your poorer prognosis can go back to the end of the line.
Canadians get denied healthcare treatments due to pre-existing conditions all the time. Everyday. It's routine, because our finite resources are rationed out to people. It's like we have to stand in line, Soviet-style, but only if we're entitled to a ration--have to have your paperwork ready to prove it.
People get bumped off waiting lists, or moved down on waiting lists, everyday, due to pre-existing conditions. The point is that in the U.S., you have a right to buy treatment privately if you can afford it. In Canada, you either make the cut or you and your poorer prognosis can go back to the end of the line.
You wouldn't find it that easy to buy yourself a new liver in the US either if you're an alcoholic. Donor organs are in short supply.
The USA health care system gets relentless criticism and much of it is justified based on the extremely high cost. I've worked for 13 years in a number of countries and in some countries over a year duration (currently in Peru for the last 14 months) and very few places have had care that is as good as what I get in the USA.
I would prefer that we (USA) have a system like Canada or some of the European countries to reduce the exorbitant cost but I don't think the quality of care would be better and probably not as good, just much less expensive.
I agree with you on the U.S. and the high cost. What people don't understand is that we have a large private market in health care, but not a free and competitive one. It's more like a health care cartel, than anything resembling a true free market. I mean, in what other industry is there such lack transparency in what a good or service costs? That lack of price transparency indicates a rigged market and explains why our health care is so expensive.
Problem is, our government is a corrupt nightmare, so I am doubtful they will be able to lower the costs. Our government created the regulatory environment that created the health care cartel in the first place, so, to me, expecting them to fix the problem they created is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
The good news for Americans and Canadians alike is that the healthiest most long lived people in the world actually don't use or need to use that much health care. . We don't need to reform health care as much as we need to reform our whole culture. We could all cut our health care costs by 70% AND live longer and healthier lives if we all followed the advice from this video:
You wouldn't find it that easy to buy yourself a new liver in the US either if you're an alcoholic. Donor organs are in short supply.
Liver transplants can be done with a partial organ, not the whole thing--the widow in that article was willing to be a donor, but even with a donor available, they couldn't book surgery. Thus the lawsuit.
Lots of patients get pushed down, or off, waiting lists for procedures due to other pre-existing conditions: overweight, too old, too young, smoker, diabetic, etc.....
Canadians get denied healthcare treatments due to pre-existing conditions all the time. Everyday. It's routine, because our finite resources are rationed out to people. It's like we have to stand in line, Soviet-style, but only if we're entitled to a ration--have to have your paperwork ready to prove it.
People get bumped off waiting lists, or moved down on waiting lists, everyday, due to pre-existing conditions. The point is that in the U.S., you have a right to buy treatment privately if you can afford it. In Canada, you either make the cut or you and your poorer prognosis can go back to the end of the line.
Sounds like my brother. He ended up going to the US for treatment.
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