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Nonsense...the spirit and reasoning for the 2nd amendment apply as much today as they did over 200 years ago.
The reasoning? You mean defending the population against a tyrannical government? The one with tanks, nukes and firing power a thousand times more than all the guns in the US? That reasoning?
Do you seriously believe that the writers of the 2nd amendment had ANY clue as to how technology and firing power were to change over the next 225 years? Do you honestly they think they would be proud of the US today?
So the probability that he would just say randomly one Saturday night go into a Gay club and spray said targeted audience with bullets from a gun that can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, had nothing to do with Homophobia.... He just walked into a random club because he was crazy - no clue he was walking into a gay club???
You are absolutely correct my friend. Bottis comments have been wrong and very insensitive so far. Even the father of this terrorist said his son was upset over seeing to men kiss in Miami. It makes sense being that he was Muslim and it is no secret homosexuality is a problem for many Muslims.
It is also interesting to see people try to play down the role religion might have played in this. It is the same thing with the Ottawa and Quebec incidents. These people had religious affiliations and this should not be over looked. Not all Muslims are bad obviously but I don't think we should ignore the negative consequences of the extreme ideology of Islam. We keep seeing this over and over and over and over and over and over and over. How many people have to die before we say enough is enough? Quite honestly most people I have met that still have terrible attitudes towards gays are religious people.
There were a lot of Latino names on the list of the dead. The Latino community is also very much hurting over this along with the LBGTQ community.
You are absolutely correct my friend. Bottis comments have been wrong and very insensitive so far. Even the father of this terrorist said his son was upset over seeing to men kiss in Miami. It makes sense being that he was Muslim and it is no secret homosexuality is a problem for many Muslims.
It is also interesting to see people try to play down the role religion might have played in this. It is the same thing with the Ottawa and Quebec incidents. These people had religious affiliations and this should not be over looked. Not all Muslims are bad obviously but I don't think we should ignore the negative consequences of the extreme ideology of Islam. We keep seeing this over and over and over and over and over and over and over. How many people have to die before we say enough is enough? Quite honestly most people I have met that still have terrible attitudes towards gays are religious people.
There were a lot of Latino names on the list of the dead. The Latino community is also very much hurting over this along with the LBGTQ community.
Thanks UL.. That is why I posted the Owen Jones article. I think he did a fantastic job! Agreed re: the latino LBGTQ community... These people came from all walks of life, students, professionals you name it. All around just a terrible waste of life.
Its tricky regarding the Muslim community. Most are good and honest people like the rest of us. Like racism, homophobia and the like education is important and also good police work and laws! I think the Muslim community and its leadership should be vocal in their condemnation of this issue and to make this clear in the muslim community that this type of violence has no place in modern day islam. Not just in token responses to the media - I mean sending a clear message day in and day out that this radicalism is a threat to us all.
A separate note on the weapon used in this massacre:
If this doesn't give someone pause for a moment and say we have to do something about gun violence and gun control laws I don't know what will. Then again - Sandy Hook happened. Democratic President, Democratic Senate and Democratic Congress are looking good to me right now.
It does apply. The nut job was able to buy his weapons legally. Something is VERY wrong with that.
The term assault rifle or assault weapon who cares? He bought an AR -15 semi-automatic. He could shoot 45 rounds to 60 per minute. Not exactly a hunting rifle. No one needs that kind of firing power.
Oh boy, here we go. Do you realize what a duck hunting shotgun can do with buckshot? Each round is equal to about twenty "evil assault weapons".
It does apply. The nut job was able to buy his weapons legally. Something is VERY wrong with that.
You're not going to believe this, but sometimes people buy beer, sandwiches, and newspapers for others. Some folks even buy GUNS for other people. Crazy, but hey. Allah say, Farook do:
The term assault rifle or assault weapon who cares? He bought an AR -15 semi-automatic. He could shoot 45 rounds to 60 per minute. Not exactly a hunting rifle. No one needs that kind of firing power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
The reasoning? You mean defending the population against a tyrannical government?
I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets a gun. He explains his need as something like, "Well, I don't want the King of England to come and take us back."
While Homer's view may have had some validity in 1789, it holds very little water in 2016, when the UK has no interest in regaining the US. My own feeling is that the Founding Fathers felt like Homer when they crafted the Second Amendment: we need to be armed just in case the British try again. And as Nat astutely points out, small arms operated by civilians will have little effect against a trained American domestic military using tanks, smart bombs, tactical nukes, and the like.
In my lifetime, I've shot thousands of rounds from a variety of firearms--including an AR-15. After having shot one, an AR-15 is not, IMHO, a hunting rifle--a Remington or a Mossberg or a Winchester is a hunting rifle. An AR-15 is a killing machine, pure and simple. Bambi won't stand a chance, and neither will people.
Its tricky regarding the Muslim community. Most are good and honest people like the rest of us. Like racism, homophobia and the like education is important and also good police work and laws! I think the Muslim community and its leadership should be vocal in their condemnation of this issue and to make this clear in the muslim community that this type of violence has no place in modern day islam. Not just in token responses to the media - I mean sending a clear message day in and day out that this radicalism is a threat to us all.
I know alot of people hate hearing it, but the best possible way to stop or at least lower the risk of terrorism in western nations is to simply limit how many Muslims you allow into your countries. I still don't understand why western nations have such a love affair with Muslims and why they feel the need to allow so many of them in when they don't bring anything special that other immigrants couldn't bring to the table and then you have to spend countless resources to monitor a threat you willingly allowed into your borders indefinitely because if you don't and a Muslim terrorist attack happens there will be hell to pay.
Again all you have to do is look to countries like Japan and South Korea and how they don't allow Muslims and Islam to grow out of control in their nations and you see the results of their policies. Namely little Islamic terrorism to speak of for many decades now and a ton of time, money and manpower saved from having to forever monitor Muslims and hope that some of them don't turn bad and attack you. I really wish western nations had the balls to do what those countries do with regards to Muslims.
Quote:
If this doesn't give someone pause for a moment and say we have to do something about gun violence and gun control laws I don't know what will. Then again - Sandy Hook happened. Democratic President, Democratic Senate and Democratic Congress are looking good to me right now.
At this point, gun control in the US is POINTLESS. There's literally hundreds of millions of guns on the streets of America and it will be impossible to get rid of them all. Right now I think the best thing to do is simply let anyone who wants a gun to get one. Many Americans often say that arming themselves is the best way to keep themselves safe and maybe for them that's pretty much the only solution to things.
In order for gun control to work you need good laws and more importantly you need people to WANT gun control and buy into those laws and abide by them. Most Canadians want gun control and are willing to follow the laws that govern firearms and that's why it works here with the exception of black people who don't give a crap about gun laws. Many, MANY Americans don't want gun control or at least nothing that is super restrictive and hence why its a failure in the US and will ALWAYS be a failure there.
My own feeling is that the Founding Fathers felt like Homer when they crafted the Second Amendment: we need to be armed just in case the British try again.
A bit of history:
Quote:
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution was influenced by the English Bill of Rights 1689, which also dealt with personal defence by English subjects.
The 1689 Bill of Rights did not create a new right to have arms but instead rescinded and deplored acts of the deposed Catholic King James II, who, as far as relevant here, forced the disarming of Protestants while extending the right to bear arms to Catholics and Protestant dissenters in addition to upholding prior legislation that limited the ownership of arms to certain social classes.
I know alot of people hate hearing it, but the best possible way to stop or at least lower the risk of terrorism in western nations is to simply limit how many Muslims you allow into your countries. I still don't understand why western nations have such a love affair with Muslims and why they feel the need to allow so many of them in when they don't bring anything special that other immigrants couldn't bring to the table and then you have to spend countless resources to monitor a threat you willingly allowed into your borders indefinitely because if you don't and a Muslim terrorist attack happens there will be hell to pay.
Again all you have to do is look to countries like Japan and South Korea and how they don't allow Muslims and Islam to grow out of control in their nations and you see the results of their policies. Namely little Islamic terrorism to speak of for many decades now and a ton of time, money and manpower saved from having to forever monitor Muslims and hope that some of them don't turn bad and attack you. I really wish western nations had the balls to do what those countries do with regards to Muslims.
I don't hate to hear it I just don't fundamentally agree with your views on the matter. I think closing our borders to a whole group of individuals because of the actions of a very small minority will rob us of far more than what we will gain. Its such an insular and close minded approach! I'm also worried about the precedent, first muslims than who? Its a slippery slope. How about we deal with the people causing the problems through good intelligence and police work - its not 100 percent but it can be effective and at the same time doesn't eviscerate a fundamental part of what we are as Canadians - an open and diverse nation. Also, we aren't going to expand our economy by closing our borders. Immigrants pay taxes and immigrants create jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling
At this point, gun control in the US is POINTLESS. There's literally hundreds of millions of guns on the streets of America and it will be impossible to get rid of them all. Right now I think the best thing to do is simply let anyone who wants a gun to get one. Many Americans often say that arming themselves is the best way to keep themselves safe and maybe for them that's pretty much the only solution to things.
In order for gun control to work you need good laws and more importantly you need people to WANT gun control and buy into those laws and abide by them. Most Canadians want gun control and are willing to follow the laws that govern firearms and that's why it works here with the exception of black people who don't give a crap about gun laws. Many, MANY Americans don't want gun control or at least nothing that is super restrictive and hence why its a failure in the US and will ALWAYS be a failure there.
The current approach in the U.S isn't working so well. That is clear so perhaps a different approach is in order. I see the U.S as an evolving nation and people evolve. Don't be so quick to assume that a greater number of people in the country don't want gun control.. As for your comment about blacks - its the exact same approach you use against muslims. A small minority of each are causing problems so lets just broad brush stroke everyone in those groups. You don't see the injustice and unfairness of that?
It does apply. The nut job was able to buy his weapons legally. Something is VERY wrong with that.
The nut job was a licensed security guard with a special firearm license....if there was negligence in not suspending his license and gun buying rights (not that would have stopped him anyway) after being flagged by the FBI (assuming that these flags were serious enough to warrant such suspension) that should be heavily investigated, otherwise there is no way to stop a guy owning firearms that suddenly went haywire to commit a massacre.....not even in Canada.
Quote:
The term assault rifle or assault weapon who cares? He bought an AR -15 semi-automatic. He could shoot 45 rounds to 60 per minute. Not exactly a hunting rifle. No one needs that kind of firing power.
An assault rifle is a fully automatic firearm...very different.
Newsflash...there are semi automatic hunting rifles much more powerful than the AR-15 with the same volume of fire....for example the Remington 740 or the Browning BAR series used by millions of granpas (Americans and Canadians) to hunt deer in the wooden areas of the east coast ...the AR-15 just look more "scary"......
First rule of debating on a topic is to inform yourself.....the amount of ignorance showed by some anti-gun critics (I'm not talking specifically about you) is frankly appalling.
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