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First rule of debating on a topic is to inform yourself.....the amount of ignorance showed by some anti-gun critics (I'm not talking specifically about you) is frankly appalling.
Well - how about changing the gun laws and see if it has a desired result in a decade or so instead of assuming it won't. Once that takes place and if people are still going into clubs and school's with grandpa's hunting rifles killing 23 kids or 50 people in one sitting time and time again, than you can come back and say I told you so. Deal?
The reasoning? You mean defending the population against a tyrannical government? The one with tanks, nukes and firing power a thousand times more than all the guns in the US? That reasoning?
Do you seriously believe that the writers of the 2nd amendment had ANY clue as to how technology and firing power were to change over the next 225 years? Do you honestly they think they would be proud of the US today?
Really?? Do you really think you need tanks and nukes to make a country ungovernable?? Ask insurgents in the middle east....
Well - how about changing the gun laws and see if it has a desired result in a decade or so instead of assuming it won't. Once that takes place and if people still are going into clubs and school's with grandpa's hunting rifles killing 23 kids or 50 people in one sitting, than you can come back and say I told you so. Deal?
Been done already my friend.....gun laws were much more relaxed 50-60 years ago....shotguns did not even have serial numbers prior to 1968, you could buy guns at Sears or any hardware store and teenagers could buy .22 rifles...and violent crime was not a vital issue as it is today.
By the way currently violent crimes is at historical low (since 1978) in the US and gun ownership is through the roof....need more proof??
I will gladly continue to debate this particular topic that, by the way, has very little relevance with this particular horrible massacre in Orlando....frankly I think we should discuss other aspects that are much more important in this very unfortunate episode.
Been done already my friend.....gun laws were much more relaxed 50-60 years ago....shotguns did not even have serial numbers prior to 1968, you could buy guns at Sears or any hardware store and teenagers could buy .22 rifles...and violent crime was not a vital issue as it is today.
By the way currently violent crimes is at historical low (since 1978) in the US and gun ownership is through the roof....need more proof??
I will gladly continue to debate this particular topic that, by the way, has very little relevance with this particular horrible massacre in Orlando....frankly I think we should discuss other aspects that are much more important in this very unfortunate episode.
Lets not use gun laws from 50-60 years ago. Its a different time so perhaps a bit more flexible thinking now instead of trying to use a parallel from a long time ago is in order.
As for violent crimes being at a historical low, I don't require proof and will take your word for it. That said, the string of high profile large scale massacres is happening with quite regularity in modern times. Perhaps a different approach is in order - even type trialed to see if it has a positive result. If 150 lives can be saved even over a 10-15 year period its worth it. If another Sandy Hook or Pulse could be prevented by changing the laws I think its worth it.
As for the other aspects I completely agree with you! I've delved into a bit of those myself in this thread but you are right - there are absolutely other important matters that should be discussed in this and other unfortunate incidents. I also get this is more, much more than a weapon so don't think i'm looking for a convenient excuse.
Americas problem is too many easily obtained guns and nut jobs willing to use them.
Gun laws are meaningless when some one is determined to go on a killing spree,eg the Pride Bar was a gun free establishment. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ook-post-says/
Americas problem is too many easily obtained guns and nut jobs willing to use them.
Gun laws are meaningless when some one is determined to go on a killing spree,eg the Pride Bar was a gun free establishment.
So trial it and if it does nothing revert back. No harm no foul.
So it looks like Omar Mateen may have been no stranger to the gay world. He used a gay dating app, described as having gay tendencies by his ex wife and also frequented Pulse nightclub many times.
So the probability that he would just say randomly one Saturday night go into a Gay club and spray said targeted audience with bullets from a gun that can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, had nothing to do with Homophobia.... He just walked into a random club because he was crazy - no clue he was walking into a gay club???
Except what does it make it if the shooter, as is being increasingly suggested in news reports, was in fact himself gay? Even if a self-hating gay? What is it called then?
If 150 lives can be saved even over a 10-15 year period its worth it. If another Sandy Hook or Pulse could be prevented by changing the laws I think its worth it.
Problem is you can't.....these mass shooting are the results of complex sociological problems....even if you ban guns outright they would find a way to do harm.
Problem is you can't.....these mass shooting are the results of complex sociological problems....even if you ban guns outright they would find a way to do harm.
I don't disagree that these are complex problems. I'm not saying that there is a one size fits all solution either. I'm looking at multi-pronged solutions. Or there is the - well this is going to happen anyway approach so lets resort to playing tiddly winks and do nothing.
Last edited by fusion2; 06-14-2016 at 03:24 AM..
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