Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A Canadian pastiche branch of the Hollywood hiphop pro sports subculture...?
Yes I know basketball was invented by a Canadian but what's uniquely Canadian about the Raptors other than the fact they're based in Toronto? They're about as uniquely Canadian as a Walmart in Etobicoke.
You're missing the point - i'm talking about different groups of people of different cultures and ethnicities enjoying events TOGETHER Who cares if it is watching Basketball, Going to the Inuit Museum or playing tiddly winks..
Oh, I am not "blaming" immigrants at all. They're just latching to what's there, and can't latch onto what's not there. I was just giving a bunch of examples to support my point that the way immigrants were and are integrated in Toronto is extremely open and non-coercitive.
"Welcome to Toronto. Do whatever the hell you want and you'll still be considered fully Torontonian and Canadian. Just don't break the law though."
Not to interrupt the discussion between yourself and Acajack, but wanted to add a couple points.
I do not think immigration sanctions against any particular group will work nor change the crime rates in any meaningful way. Please note that the majority of Jamaicans that immigrate to Canada have no connections to organized crime in their home nation. Most Jamaicans that are leaving areas that are plagued with crime are doing so to escape Garrison politics and violence, rather than import it. The connections between Jamaican crime bosses and Toronto street gangs are over exaggerated to a fault.
The fact remains that most Jamaican youts or Canadians of Jamaican heritage learn how to be criminals right in Canada not Jamaica. So the question is why? That obviously is a separate topic that could span many pages, but the issue is that people do not examine the underlying reasons for the heightened violence within certain communities. That is where Acajack's point comes into play. Correct me if I am wrong but your point isnt to say that we need less immigrants, but rather that under the veil of multiculturalism alot of what happens to immigrants once they land in their adopted land gets swept under the rug. How can you have an honest discussion when all you hear is how welcoming a place is to everyone....it forces the dissenting voices that have a point to share to silence themselves and that does not lead to any healthy dialogue.
Thanks for posting this. I was trying to make a similar point but restrained myself for fear it would not come across the right way.
The thing is that life in Toronto works out tremendously well for young people of many different origins, but for some reason it doesn't always work out well for Jamaican (and to a broader degree it seems, Afro-Caribbean) youths. Why is that?
As you point out it's easy to blame Jamaicans or the culture of Jamaica itself as many in Toronto do, but it seems to me that Jamaican/Afro-Caribbean people may even have better outcomes in the U.S. where the danger of their lives dovetailing with some of the serious problems of the native African-American community seems even greater than similar temptations in Toronto.
I have no idea why that is but it's a legitimate question that few people seem to be asking.
You're missing the point - i'm talking about different groups of people of different cultures and ethnicities enjoying events TOGETHER Who cares if it is watching Basketball, Going to the Inuit Museum or playing tiddly winks..
And how is this uniquely Torontonian? When people watch soccer in London they all segregate by ethnicity and race?
Nope lol. I started watching basketball pretty early, before Toronto had a team. So I ride with the team of my youth through thick and thin. With that said I follow them from a far and do root for them to do well.
First of all - it just always seem like Toronto is the focus of issues when it comes to multiculturalism. I really wish people would engage in a fair and balanced examination of issues across various groups in various cities in this country. Toronto just seems like an unhealthy dumping ground of critique in this forum whereby other cities seem to get a free pass. I find that interesting!
As for Jamaicans in Toronto and crime. It is a complex sociological issue. I think we both know some of the answers to that. You more than me. That said Ed, we do have many other groups including loads of visible minorities who don't seem to have such a connection to violent crime. I'm open here as you know I always am about this issue. I've been pretty front and centre on issues of racism and i'd love more than anyone for certain groups to get a big leg up. It is both sides here but I just wish Toronto wasn't the singular f*cking focus of critique. In any event, violent crime rates in T.O are very low on a per cap basis - even when compared to much smaller cities in this country let alone peer cities of similar size in the U.S
Just underscores what I wrote above to a T.. I know you're joking but still - its pretty common among people in here to constantly talk s*it about T.O - they look for every and any excuse.
It was not meant as a shot at Toronto and especially not at you personally, as I know you are one of the posters who actually speaks out on certain issues that are taboo to most.
The point is mainly that it is tough to speak up when everyone in the room is yelling about how accepting they are. It does drown out the discussion and that is not a uniquely Toronto problem.
Re-undocumented workers in Canadians cities while I know there are likely a good amount from Latin America, let's not forget there are also loads from Europe. Unlike many people from the Latin America who usually needs visas to come to Canada, Europeans don't and for years and years the city has seen influxes of Europeans coming her for supposed vacation or to visit family and they actually end up staying here, working and not playing taxes. The construction industry is plagued with undocumented workers. It is disgusting. So before anyone out there is up and arms about undocumented Latin American's working in Canada illegally you might want to take a deeper look at another problem seeming from that fact that Europeans are doing the same thing. I am also sure there are Americans and Canadian doing this too in certain places as well. A significant difference is we are more likely to play the "just visiting/ on vacation card" a lot more effectively.
Of course and I wasn't targeting the latin American community KLM. It just reminded me of when my partner and I and a Mexican friend went to a latin night event at the 519 in the villiage. Our Mexican friend joked that hopefully Immigration Canada isn't invited. We thought it was a cute thing he said.
It was not meant as a shot at Toronto and especially not at you personally, as I know you are one of the posters who actually speaks out on certain issues that are taboo to most.
The point is mainly that it is tough to speak up when everyone in the room is yelling about how accepting they are. It does drown out the discussion and that is not a uniquely Toronto problem.
I get that Ed and I wasn't just referring to you either but I find with some in here it is just a constant hit on Toronto against its multiculturalism. As if there is something inherently and fundamentally destructive about it to the city or that the city is inherently lacking in native culture that immigrants are seemingly lost because of it. There are challenges but at the end of the day Canada has one truly global city in terms of economic connectivity with the rest of the world and that is Toronto. Toronto wouldn't be where it is today without immigration and many immigrants choose to live here when they move to this country. Let's face it, a large diaspora from the homeland does provide some comfort to immigrants and in Canada, Toronto has probably more large diaspora's than any other city. Should we apologize for 'lack of native' Toronto culture vs Montreal like really - I have a hard time believing people lose sleep over this both Native Torontonians and Immigrant Torontonians alike.
In any event, there are other cities in Canada that have issues and not just with multiculturalism, but problems with natives alike. Also, Montreal and Vancouver and Calgary aren't an oasis of integration harmony so maybe some in here should balance their posts.
And how is this uniquely Torontonian? When people watch soccer in London they all segregate by ethnicity and race?
It isn't uniquely Torontonian and I didn't claim that. What I am saying is that the most important thing is that people with differences work and play together. Of course that isn't just a Toronto thing but the better we can do towards integration I think is a noble goal as a city. For me it starts in the workplace. It is the one area people are forced to be in where they have to make things work with those who are different. This spills over to other areas. Integration happens and even in situations where people aren't obviously a cultural or societal match - connections happen. It is a good thing!
You keep relentlessly hammering Toronto and English Canada as a whole for lack of culture. Do you really think that English Canadians and the immigrants in English Canadian cities are sitting here going OMG we are so jealous of French Canadian culture we are just going to melt. Really? Seriously what is the deal with you and this stuff. Don't you think people in Toronto actually enjoy eating at its restaurants or participating in a number of different cultural experiences the city offers? Do you think only Indonesian people eat at Indonesian restaurants in T.O. Of course not so there are absolutely positives in food, music and culture for people who live here and enjoy the variety. Do you have a poster on the ceiling above your bed that has French Canadian culture rules or what? You come off as really arrogant and smug about all this tbh AJ.
I've tried to be respectful and appreciative of your culture here. Perhaps you should extend some respect for the differences in approach and values we have regarding multiculturalism. If what you contend is so important to you was so important to us, we would have probably figured that out by now. Perhaps we just have different priorities and values and appreciate different things....
Last edited by fusion2; 05-09-2018 at 03:40 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
