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My two cents: more people would pay attention to some of your arguments if you did not constantly use derogatory slurs like pepsi or peasoup. Just today, within 45 minutes of your call to "keep the conversation positive", you were back to "peasouper sitcoms" and "real life pepper speak".
Don't exaggerate. These are fun terms to toss around with your friends. Or in Quebec "les boys". My buddy who still lives in Quebec goes by Snowfrog.
The differences are more along the lines of English RP vs. U.S. Southern English.
And if people think people are using joual (or chiac) in parliament, at city council meetings, in the classroom, in writing novels or the vast majority of pop music songs, or even in transacting with their local bank teller, then as I said, their French obviously isn't as good as they think it is.
It's more the educational level, not the region. I'm a native southerner. Brits and New Yorkers (native NYC and transplants from non-southern regions) love my southern accent. I've had compliments for 40 years now.
Joual is harsh like some working-class Bronx accents (which educated people from the Bronx don't have at all). Educated Montrealers who are native French-speakers have very proper French. I've seen it in Montreal itself and in Quebec movies (like "Decline of the American Empire" -- unlike "My Uncle Antoine," with its rustic accents). The two posters who disdain "Quebec French" sound utterly clueless on the subject.
This thread sure has gone to absurdity and I'm just an observer. The O.P. was concerned that French in Canada was losing out to English and now we have a new argument that proper French in Canada is losing out to provincialized, Anglicized, Americanized or whatever sub-stratum French and therefore the language as a whole is in decline. I am not a French speaker so anything I hear in Quebec and Eastern Ontario sounds all too authentic French to me and if I'm wrong then who cares. If that language closely resembling French is promoted and preserved in Canada and especially Quebec, then all is well. Call it "Quebecois" then. Why not? A new Francolinguistic-identity, je parle Quebecois, pas Francais (disclaimer: Google translation).
It's more the educational level, not the region. I'm a native southerner. Brits and New Yorkers (native NYC and transplants from non-southern regions) love my southern accent. I've had compliments for 40 years now.
Joual is harsh like some working-class Bronx accents (which educated people from the Bronx don't have at all). Educated Montrealers who are native French-speakers have very proper French. I've seen it in Montreal itself and in Quebec movies (like "Decline of the American Empire" -- unlike "My Uncle Antoine," with its rustic accents). The two posters who disdain "Quebec French" sound utterly clueless on the subject.
Assuming I am one of the two "clueless" posters with "disdain" for Quebec French (despite being a native French-speaker born and raised in Montreal):
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight
It's more the educational level, not the region.
That's exactly what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight
I'm a native southerner. Brits and New Yorkers (native NYC and transplants from non-southern regions) love my southern accent. I've had compliments for 40 years now.
They also look down on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight
Joual is harsh like some working-class Bronx accents (which educated people from the Bronx don't have at all). Educated Montrealers who are native French-speakers have very proper French.
That's exactly what I said. There is a world of difference between Montrealais spoken on the street and the French spoken by a Montreal university professor.
You could also compare Canadian French to English spoken in rural Mississippi compared to standard American English. It's often looked down upon, laughed at, and requires more attention to decipher.
Assuming I am one of the two "clueless" posters with "disdain" for Quebec French (despite being a native French-speaker born and raised in Montreal):
That's exactly what I said.
They also look down on it.
That's exactly what I said. There is a world of difference between Montrealais spoken on the street and the French spoken by a Montreal university professor.
You could also compare Canadian French to English spoken in rural Mississippi compared to standard American English. It's often looked down upon, laughed at, and requires more attention to decipher.
Actually no, you were not one of the the two posters I referred to. But what you emphasize on p. 4 of this thread is that "European French", as you call it -- the proper one taught in schools -- has few positive role models in French Canada. I encountered other than joual, rustic, or Gaspesian French in Montreal and Quebec City. It was proper, and no less so than the English in Atlanta or Austin. There's no reason Anglo-Canadians would diss French classes based on working-class Montreal speech. The Parisian equivalent (le parigot) is just as harsh, and my French friends make good fun of it.
Last edited by masonbauknight; 07-23-2020 at 01:49 PM..
Reason: Usage
French is, but joual and chiac, the French-like dialects spoken in Canada are not.
France has more French variations than Quebec.
Oïl language in France:
Berrichon
Bourguignon-Morvandiau
Champenois or Campanois
Franc-Comtois
French
Gallo
Lorrain
Norman
Picard
Poitevin and Saintongeais
Walloon
Angevin
Manceau
Mayennais
And all writers (forum members, bloggers, journalists, technical writers, scientists, literary authors, songwriters, politicians, lawyers, professors, managers, etc.) writing in their French language from Quebec, Belgium, Swiss and France can understand each other.
Berrichon
Bourguignon-Morvandiau
Champenois or Campanois
Franc-Comtois
French
Gallo
Lorrain
Norman
Picard
Poitevin and Saintongeais
Walloon
Angevin
Manceau
Mayennais
And all writers (forum members, bloggers, journalists, technical writers, scientists, literary authors, songwriters, politicians, lawyers, professors, managers, etc.) writing in their French language from Quebec, Belgium, Swiss and France can understand each other.
Thank you for your contribution!
Yes, and those dialects are closer to French than joual or chiac, and those writers write in standard French and not their dialects.
Standard French has been enforced by the French government since the times of Napoleon and anyone in Quebec writing in any intellectual capacity writes in standard French, even if they speak in country dialect in day to day life.
I don't see the difference. They all look similar.
We have more differences in regional Spanish and we all understand each other.
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