"They took care of you so it's your turn to take care of them," (child, adult)
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I don't think this is a "one size fits all" statement. Besides the fact that there are very different "levels of care" when it comes to parenting, there are also often some unrealistic ideas of what elder care should consist of.
First of all, for at least the first 18 years of our lives (generally speaking), as our parents are taking care of us, they are in charge. Not the kids (as it should be!). Their careers and future plans are of utmost importance. They are working toward their own goals, while raising their kids. The kids move where the parents move, to accommodate their parents' careers and long term goals. Yes, they changed our diapers, but they did so with the expectation that this was a very short term situation and that we would be in diapers for just a couple of years. Their ultimate goal was our complete independence from them.
I know some elderly parents are more reasonable and realistic than others. My own parents, for instance, have a great plan for their elderly years, which definitely involves me (heck, it already involves me). They do expect me to administer their needs and their lives to a growing extent as they become more dependent. But they've planned well, and we're all on the same sheet of music. They fully understand that if they have to live with or near me, they will move where I am. They understand that my husband and I are saving for retirement and that the next ten years are of utmost importance to our retirement plans. And finally, though my parents are not perfect, they have sincerely tried to be excellent parents all their lives. We have maintained a very close relationship and we respect each other. We have also always been very honest and open with each other.
My husband's parents are nearly the opposite. Now that they are in a crisis situation (FIL in ICU after emergency open heart surgery and MIL with mild dementia and who is apparently UTTERLY HELPLESS now staying with us), the full extent of the lack of planning on their part, not to mention deceit and denial, is fully evident. There is NO WAY either of them will be able to live independently in the future. Apparently they've saved quite a bit of money for their care, but now they are suspicious and angry about any option other than moving back into their own home, and someone staying with them full time. Apparently that someone would have to be family, because there is no affordable 24/7 care for TWO disabled elderly people in their own home. No one person could do it - family or professional. They've been covering for each other so to speak. What I mean by that is that my FIL, who is fully in his right mind but whose health is very precarious, has been doing EVERYTHING for my MIL apparently (no wonder the poor guy has been stressed to the max). Yes, we've known that she has mild dementia, but we had no idea just how helpless she really is. To make matters worse, she is an unpleasant person, and always has been. She has not been a very good mother to her sons - ever - in the best of circumstances. I believe she has some mental health issues that proceed her dementia and old age, and her sons both agree with that assessment. In fact, she spent some time in a mental hospital after a "nervous breakdown" about 25 years ago, and she's always been very paranoid and suspicious. So now you can imagine just how "off the chain" her mind is under the current conditions!
The stress in our house right now is unbelievable. Her husband is in ICU. She goes back and forth between extreme stress and distress about his health and well being, to anger at him and accusing him of actually "doing all he can" to get away from her, including having this surgery! She actually thinks he has a secret lover and he's going to leave her after he gets out of the hospital and run off with this younger woman! OMG the man is so far from that it's unbelievable. Not only that - he's been steadfastly nurturing of this very difficult wife of his for over 40 years. And yet she's laying all these crazy accusations at him, and now she's also suspicious and thinking we're cooperating with him to "get rid of her."
And the really sad thing about this is that in a sense we are. Since no one can really take care of her, we ARE looking at assisted living centers for her, with her husband's consent and approval. He plans to join her after his convalescence, but she's headed for one. The reason is that no one can uproot their lives and move to where these two live to take care of them together, and due to everyone's work schedules, no one can have the MIL move into their homes, because she needs round the clock supervision and care. So for the short haul at least, they will be cared for separately.
She's FURIOUS. She really can't see just how difficult she is to take care of. Thank goodness her husband is more reasonable, but then of course he's also very upset at this turn in his life.
LORD HELP US ALL. The guilt feelings are terrible, but so is the daily frustration. There are no easy answers to so many of these all too common dilemmas.
Your MIL has progressed from mild dementia. I assume she is taking Aricept and/or Namenda?
Your husband will have to become the parent to his parents. One spouse covering for the problems of another is documented in the literature about Alzheimer's. But if she has not been seen by a doc for awhile, she should go back to get a specific diagnosis that addresses where she is now on the Alzheimer's spectrum.
If he has not already done this, your husband or another adult child will need to obtain a financial poa and a health poa. You will need to see an elder specialist attorney.
This is just for the start. The parents probably belong in Assisted Care. So the adult children will need to push them in that direction, assuming your FIL will be released in decent shape. You should make it clear that your MIL cannot stay very long with you.
Your MIL is probably helpless. If she resists taking her meds, and gives problems about eating, then please know she will probably do much better in assisted care.
I've been down this road with my mother since about 2006. My mom has just had a stroke and is now in rehab. The stroke has diminished what memory my mom had. She is also quite hard of hearing. Being with her for even an hour is exhausting, but both my sister and I are present for several hours a day. My point is that this will only get worse; it won't even stabilize for very long.
The boys should be coming together to devise how they are going to handle their parents. You need to be firm about not having her in your home for very long. In the meantime, try not to take anything she says personally or very seriously, unless of course she complains of pain. She is literally not in her right mind.
I want to wish you well. I know how upsetting this is. Good luck.
Your MIL has progressed from mild dementia. I assume she is taking Aricept and/or Namenda?
They've been in complete PUBLIC denial about her mental state, actually for many years (my husband and his brother doubt that it's just dementia at play here, since she has a history of "nervous breakdowns"). She'll talk sort of paranoid crazy and my husband will tell me later "This isn't the dementia at play - I've been listening to that sort of talk for thirty years." Then she will be completely lucid the next minute and making perfect sense.
She is on Domepezil. Just found that out.
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Your husband will have to become the parent to his parents. One spouse covering for the problems of another is documented in the literature about Alzheimer's. But if she has not been seen by a doc for awhile, she should go back to get a specific diagnosis that addresses where she is now on the Alzheimer's spectrum.
Oh, boy. I DID see a referral to a neuropsychologist in her recent medical paperwork and I'm not sure if she followed up on that. I think she actually did go to that appointment but when we try to pry the information out of her or her husband, they do not give us a direct answer. They say something along the lines of "They just didn't find anything much wrong."
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If he has not already done this, your husband or another adult child will need to obtain a financial poa and a health poa. You will need to see an elder specialist attorney.
Other than the extreme privacy about their health issues, and a lifetime of shielding and enabling his mentally unstable wife, I don't think that my FIL is mentally incompetent at all. In fact, four days out of heart surgery, he's doing great (thank God - in spite of all these issues, I do love my FIL and am genuinely excited about his healthy rebound!). Yesterday we got a lot of business done with him - got my MIL on the waiting list for an assisted living place with his approval, got info on home health care for him and discussed it, went over his recent bills, etc to make sure we had stuff all paid up, and he didn't seem stressed - he seemed relieved. It seems that he's let go of some worry and just decided that for the SHORT HAUL, he's going to have to just let go and trust that we're taking care of the business side of things.
As for us getting the medical and financial POA RATHER THAN his wife...wow, that one will take awhile to address with him, I think, but we will do so when he's a little stronger. He is actually going home next week (his brother is going to come up to help take him to and from medical appts and to be there with him full time for a couple of months - thank GOD!). His wife will be just a few minutes down the road at the AL place - we had to promise both of them that they will get to see each other every day - between his brother and me, we can accomplish this, I think.
It may be better for his brother to fill that role - they are very close and love and trust each other very much. We'll hash that out soon after he's home. And I think he needs to go with us to the elder care attorney's office. He needs to hear it from someone other than us.
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This is just for the start. The parents probably belong in Assisted Care. So the adult children will need to push them in that direction, assuming your FIL will be released in decent shape. You should make it clear that your MIL cannot stay very long with you.
Yep, took care of this yesterday. In fact, my FIL does plan on selling the house soon and probably moving with her to assisted living. Once he recovers somewhat, I do think he will return to being pretty self sufficient for awhile. I mean, he can't keep up with his large house and yard, but as far as taking care of his personal needs, I think he'll be able to do so - mentally he's sharp as a tack, even after that massive surgery. And I think he's actually laid there and thought through all this, and at least for the time being, he seems to have decided to trust our judgment. I do, however, think that he could withdraw that trust at any minute, ESPECIALLY if he thinks anyone is "trying to screw him over" or force him to do anything.
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Your MIL is probably helpless. If she resists taking her meds, and gives problems about eating, then please know she will probably do much better in assisted care.
Yes. She is pretty much helpless. There is absolutely no way she could take care of herself - thank God that so far there are no incontinency issues and she is able to (verrrrrrrrrrrry sllllloooooowwwwllllyyyyy) dress herself, but there's no way she can even fix herself something little or easy to eat. She eats like a bird but so far doesn't resist eating, and she doesn't resist taking her meds either.
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I've been down this road with my mother since about 2006. My mom has just had a stroke and is now in rehab. The stroke has diminished what memory my mom had. She is also quite hard of hearing. Being with her for even an hour is exhausting, but both my sister and I are present for several hours a day. My point is that this will only get worse; it won't even stabilize for very long.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mother's stroke. Very difficult. My mother had a massive stroke about ten years ago. She recovered very well but is not self sufficient and my father is her caretaker. When or if he "goes down" you know where that ball will land - right in my lap! YE GODS!
Yep, I'm starting to realize how excruciating the hours can be helping the very elderly and infirm. In fact, even though yesterday went well, I have the distinct feeling that any minute, my FIL could reverse his cooperative ways, and throw a kink in everything and the whole plan could go south. I know my MIL can do that too, but not as effectively since she's basically "at our mercy." I mean, she can argue and throw a fit (which she's already doing) but she can't actually stop us from making decisions and moving forward. However, my FIL can. Also, he could take a turn for the worse at any moment, and we know that. If he does so, we've got problems legally because we don't even know how much money is in his checking account, and we certainly couldn't transfer money between his accounts. So I'm hoping that early next week when his brother is here, both sons and the brother can sit down with him and get a better plan worked out. I do think that if his brother is involved, and not just the sons, he will be more reasonable.
These are difficult and often sad years, aren't they?
And I don't think they realize just how distressing and exhausting it is to be around them for long. People often say "They put up with you when you were little," but that's not really a fair analogy. For starters, babies and little kids are a lot cuter! But they're also growing and maturing - moving FORWARD. They're not fighting you tooth and nail or emotionally abusing you (as they've done for decades), or scheming on how to handle money situations or "escape" (ineffectively but it's still very bothersome), or sitting there across the room from you glaring at you because they think everyone is in cahoots trying to shove them off in a corner somewhere, which is not the case at all!
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The boys should be coming together to devise how they are going to handle their parents. You need to be firm about not having her in your home for very long. In the meantime, try not to take anything she says personally or very seriously, unless of course she complains of pain. She is literally not in her right mind.
I want to wish you well. I know how upsetting this is. Good luck.
Yes, I agree with all this! The sons are coming together, which is good. And my husband and my FIL have lined up the Assisted Living for my MIL and as soon as a room is available, she's moving in (should be within two weeks). And you're right - we just can't take her statements personally.
It's hard, but today has been a good day so far. Her dementia is not to the point where you can't reason at all with her...yet. She has periods of refreshing lucidity, and she still always knows who we are and can follow conversations fairly well, though she gets very confused on details like plans, appointments, times, etc.
Some of the difficulty with both maybe passive aggressive behavior, they want to control some things, and driving you crazy is one of them.
My Grandmother was skilled at this, she acted like she could not organize her medication, or get from the chair to the sink for a glass of water. Yet, she could play six cards at a time during a Bingo game, and walk from one end of a casino to the other in Vegas. Yet, there were times that she was legitimately confused, and she would cover it up. Only being with her often enough, you knew the issues, but she could act fine in front of others. It is crazy making.
Some of the difficulty with both maybe passive aggressive behavior, they want to control some things, and driving you crazy is one of them.
My Grandmother was skilled at this, she acted like she could not organize her medication, or get from the chair to the sink for a glass of water. Yet, she could play six cards at a time during a Bingo game, and walk from one end of a casino to the other in Vegas. Yet, there were times that she was legitimately confused, and she would cover it up. Only being with her often enough, you knew the issues, but she could act fine in front of others. It is crazy making.
Been there. Done it.
LOL I am beginning to know the feeling!
One thing for sure, I am not letting these two drive me crazy. Not with the assets they have, which would allow them to basically hire anyone to handle anything for a pretty long time. If they get too manipulative or disruptive (behaviors they can control), I promise you we will let them just try to handle this on their own.
I mean, we won't let them suffer unnecessarily of course, but if they get too out of hand, we certainly will step waaaaaaaayyyyyyy back and give them a day or two to figure out just how much they really do need our assistance.
I am a compassionate person but I'm not a doormat.
Keep on not being a doormat. A lot of people think they've got to let their folks walk all over them because 'they're elderly'. Well, mean people still suck no matter their age.
I would expect at least one member of the family to balk at putting Mom in a care-facility...usually the one who isn't going to step up when the going gets tough(er). If someone does, start asking them point-blank how they intend to take care of Mom and Dad themselves. Are they going to move in with them? Are they going to watch them day and night (Dementia patients wander off or try to cook and leave the stove on)? Are they willing to sacrifice their job and family life to be around 24/7 for the folks?
I'm glad to hear your FIL is at least considering selling their house. Earlier is probably better than waiting while they slowly lose the battle against up-keep. There are other posters around who are dealing with that situation.
I am sorry you and your family are going through this long and stressful time.
You sound like you resent the MIL... but remember..FIL has known for years that she has a problem, and instead of really helping her, he has tried to cover it up. Whether because of his love/devotion to her or embarrassment, he thought he was doing the right thing, even though he wasn't and it probably stressed his health.
Their generation is very secretive about privacy/health. You find out when things happen.
Life goes in a circle. ..you are the infant then they are.
As an RN who witnessed many families with the same situation, and as a person who hasgone through the same thing, just try to keep your cool-take care of what you can calmly . Don't take how they act personally. You will probably do the same thing when you get old!! You swear you won't, and maybe experiencing this will help you to plan better than they did....but it is a shocker to FIL too...I doubt he ever thought he'd be in this position!
Such is life! Some go smoother than others.
Love them, help them and take care of yourselves . If you have children of your own, how you deal with MIL/FIL will be a big influence on how your children will care for you when your time comes. This difficult time will not last for very long in reality. It is the beginning of "goodbye"
I wish you patience, goodwill, sympathy, kindness and the ability to see how close you can become during this time. I hope you do not go down the "bitterness road"
Take care.
The cover up thing is common, apparently. I suspect that the helper spouse gets something out of doing this until he or she can't anymore. If Kathryn's father in law is still mentally sharp, he may have known this time would eventually come.
Now, as my mom talks to me, asking the same set of questions again and again, I have heard some surprisingly lucid memories. These are not many, but I almost feel it is worth it for me to be with her for several hours each day jus to hear what she unexpectedly says. And both times her surprising statements come at about the same time of day. Weird. I've spent time with her before for several hours, talking, but I have never had these little nuggets pulled out of the ruined hard drive of her mind before . Simply astonishing. And oddly gratifying and touching. Such small things amid hours of rote statements and confusion.
But we are posting about Kathryn's situation. It sounds to me that things are on track. The main thing is that the family recognizes that a problem exists. That is a momentous first step.
that's rough! Please, please get them into care. The longer you keep them, the more resentment, anger and remorse you will feel.
I've seen what dementia can do. It's miserable. Unfortunately it's your in-laws and not your own parents so you will feel like the outsider, the troublemaker who "wants to put these nice people into a HOME" gasp!
There will be fights if you keep them on. You can have a discussion about how you are incapable of giving them the care they need and deserve. That way, you're not the mean one in everyone's eyes.
Ugh I don't envy you- like I said I have seen it. I tried to be the nice one and help out someone with dementia and it was a NIGHTmare. That woman was the ugliest, most selfish person I had ever the displeasure of dealing with. The dementia brought out the most foul in a human being, including bizarre sexual situations (sorry, spare you the details) and also there was the help to the toilet issues which frankly, I would rather not deal with.
It's not selfishness nor meanness that you choose to place them into care. YOU cannot GIVE them what they need. It would be selfish to keep them at home.
When someone gets dementia that's it- sorry but it is.
I am sorry you and your family are going through this long and stressful time.
Take care.
Thank you for your kind words!
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You sound like you resent the MIL... but remember..FIL has known for years that she has a problem, and instead of really helping her, he has tried to cover it up. Whether because of his love/devotion to her or embarrassment, he thought he was doing the right thing, even though he wasn't and it probably stressed his health.
I'm actually pretty put out with BOTH of them, because for literally years we have been begging them to let us be involved in their plans for just such a scenario. We've been begging them to let us help them (mow their yard, clean their house, etc) and both of them have adamantly refused. "No - we can do it ourselves." There have been several situations when the FIL would actually believe the MIL's truly crazy, illogical accusations, when it was obvious that she was delusional and dementia was setting in, and when we'd point this out, he'd get this obstinate look on his face and refuse to discuss it. Then a week or so later, he'd confide to us that she was getting "worse," whatever that meant. We found out when we picked up her meds and paperwork, that she's been diagnosed with Alzheimers, which we suspected of course but the FIL didn't share that pretty critical information with anyone else.
But also, my MIL hasn't been a mother of sweetness and light and cookies to her sons over the years. She's been a very difficult woman and has always been very emotionally unstable - probably mentally ill. She's gotten involved in one extreme religious group after another. She's very preachy. She's passive aggressive and self righteous. She's very critical of others, especially my husband who is the youngest and very different from her in personality. And this was BEFORE the dementia kicked in. These traits are magnified by her current dementia - we just THOUGHT she was suspicious and negative before! Augh!
Frankly, she hasn't treated my husband well over the years and yes, I do resent that.
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Their generation is very secretive about privacy/health. You find out when things happen.
I can see that this is true for many of them. However, my own parents (who are in their mid seventies) are not like this AT ALL. This particular family style and these dynamics are unfamiliar to me, and in such stark contrast to the very open, frank, humorous style of my own parents that it continually throws me. So much DRAMA. So much secrecy. So much tip toeing around emotional minefields. It's so unnecessary in my mind and complicates things so much.
Example - since both my inlaws are out of their house for at least a week, we suggested that we get valuables out of there. My MIL has a jewelry box that of course I've never looked inside. They are solidly middle class and not at all pretentious, so I had no idea what was in there, but I suggested that we make an inventory of it and I'd photo the pieces and be sure we knew the history on them (since some of them were family heirlooms) - and I'd send these pics and inventory to the other brother as well. You know how things can just start to "disappear" when lots of family is in and out of a house in a situation like this. The vultures start to circle. Anyway, she was very open to that and seemed to really enjoy going thru her things and telling me the stories behind each item.
Naturally, this is the time to maybe mention who should end up with some of these items - I come from a family whose style is to keep a detailed list with our wills clearly stating who gets which family heirloom (yes, my own list is complete and in our safe deposit box!). I tried to gently steer things in this direction: "Oh, this antique brooch of Bob's grandmother's is so lovely! I wish there were more girls in this family! I wonder if Joe wants this to eventually go to his sister or her daughter?" No response. (I personally think that's appropriate and that's what I'll suggest when the inevitable happens.) Then later, she showed me a ring that was her grandfather's. I said, "Since you only have one grandson, don't you think it would be a beautiful gesture to give this to him on his wedding day or on some other special occasion?" No answer. Then she said, "Y'all will just have to work all that out when I'm gone," and that shut that conversation right down. The only other thing she said, early in the inventory, was "The girls should split this stuff up one day." Which girls? She only has boys. She has no sisters. Is she talking about my sister in law and me? I have no idea. When I gently asked, "Which girls are we talking about here?" she just said, "The girls" and moved on into another conversation. AUGH!
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Life goes in a circle. ..you are the infant then they are.
True dat! The irony is though that infants are cute and get more personality and become more communicative each day. With the elderly, it's the opposite.
Another irony is this - our lifespans are lengthening. Back in their day, their parents lived much shorter lives. They tended to "linger" for shorter periods of time. When they got too sick or too addled, they went into nursing homes for the last few months of their lives. Families tended to live closer together and there were more siblings and kids to take care of the elderly in a family. Now families are much smaller, and much more scattered. The elderly can be sustained for years in very feeble conditions, with fewer family members available to take care of their needs. It's a big problem and going to get bigger as the Baby Boomer generation, with even smaller families, ages.
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As an RN who witnessed many families with the same situation, and as a person who has gone through the same thing, just try to keep your cool-take care of what you can calmly . Don't take how they act personally. You will probably do the same thing when you get old!! You swear you won't, and maybe experiencing this will help you to plan better than they did....but it is a shocker to FIL too...I doubt he ever thought he'd be in this position!
You're right - and yes, we're maintaining our cool. In fact, I am really proud of my husband, who has endured decades of weird, extreme behavior from his mother (including a suicide attempt and an involuntary hospitalization for a "nervous breakdown" which she would deny on a stack of bibles if someone asked her about). He's been very calm and we haven't allowed this to affect our own relationship. In fact, I'd say it's brought us closer.
And our wills, POAs, etc are already done. We have already discussed LTC insurance and will DEFINITELY be getting some after witnessing this series of events. We already have a plan to downsize into a much smaller home and lot in ten years, with our house paid for, and we've already talked to my daughter and her very trustworthy husband about a POA when one of us "goes down" and is unable to make good decisions (we've come to realize that the problem arises when one partner isn't self sufficient and all the knowledge of details and legalities is in the head of the other partner - who could become incapacitated at any time - and then what do you do?).
As for it being a shocker to anyone - I'm sorry, but I just don't get this. You mean it's a shocker to age? A shocker for a smoker to have to have open heart surgery? A shocker for an already emotionally/mentally unstable partner to develop Alzheimers? A shocker to have to consider where to move when one becomes unable to care for three acres and a huge house? No - this is precisely what irritates me. NONE OF THIS SHOULD BE A SHOCKER TO ANY PARTY INVOLVED. The writing has been on the wall for years now - and both sons have been begging the parents to get together a "family plan" which they steadfastly refused to do.
No. No. We are NOT going to be like that. We're already not like that. I think this scenario is very much avoidable.
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Such is life! Some go smoother than others.
That's very true. One of my mottoes has always been "Hope for the best but prepare for the worst!"
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Love them, help them and take care of yourselves . If you have children of your own, how you deal with MIL/FIL will be a big influence on how your children will care for you when your time comes.
Very true. And we've been extremely helpful and kind to them both and will continue to be so, though because they do thankfully have the assets (that's one thing they planned well - good on them!), they can afford outside help and assisted living, and we have insisted that though we will help them line all that out, they need to utilize those services as well. In other words, we will visit them several times a week, take them out, bring them home cooked food, take them to dr and beauty appts, etc but neither of them is going to live in our house - my FIL because he is so independent he wouldn't DREAM of that, and my MIL because she would wear the paint off a 1957 Chevy show car if you left her alone with it - she's that clingy and demanding, even without the Alzheimers. Throw that in and you've really got your hands full. After just a week in our home, she's exhausted both my husband and me.
Every single extended and immediate family member agrees that she needs to be in assisted living, so I do think we're doing the right thing, even though it's painful to watch her stress and worry over that, and it's so sad to hear her voice that everyone is just trying to get rid of her. Then she starts in with "It's my cross to bear in life, and I know I just need to forgive everyone and accept that I'm going to be alone and my husband is deserting me" ...
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This difficult time will not last for very long in reality. It is the beginning of "goodbye"
You're right and it's a sad time all around. I feel very sorry for the two elderly people in this scenario. I can only imagine what it feels like to be them, knowing this is really the final chapter of their lives.
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I wish you patience, goodwill, sympathy, kindness and the ability to see how close you can become during this time. I hope you do not go down the "bitterness road"
Thank you. I'm not a person prone to bitterness - I like to travel light when it comes to emotional baggage. My husband and I have managed so far to maintain a sense of humor, and to realize that no matter what, we put maintaining our own relationship and kindness for each other first and foremost - because only then are we able to be strong enough to take care of others. He and I have grown much closer through this in fact, and this has brought extended family closer as well. This has been a positive thing and a great testimony to the moral fortitude and simple goodness of my husband's side of the family - no one is arguing, stirring up trouble, trying to get control of their money or anything like that, or speaking inappropriately about the situation. I'm glad to say that this has brought out the best in many involved.
Sorry for the length of this post - therapeutic I guess!
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But they're also growing and maturing - moving FORWARD. They're not fighting you tooth and nail or emotionally abusing you (as they've done for decades), or scheming on how to handle money situations or "escape" (ineffectively but it's still very bothersome), or sitting there across the room from you glaring at you because they think everyone is in cahoots trying to shove them off in a corner somewhere, which is not the case at all!
Wow.. my prayers go out to you
