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There is a procedure, and they need signatures. Having the POA on file isn't going to cut it, they need the POA(person) there to sign. It's not just like they can take the chart to the copy machine and hand people a copy. It's just not that simple. I don't think they are hiding anything at all. I think they are trying to go by the established procedure.
I don't expect to wait for a copy like I am at Kinkos or something. I looked through their policies that they sent us when my father first went there. I couldn't find anything about how to request the records. That is why I asked the woman who is in charge of nursing (I don't know her exact title) She told me that she would inform the Executive Director of my request that it would have to go through her. I asked her if it was possible to have them by Saturday. She said that it shouldn't be a problem. That was last Tuesday, how was I to know from that conversation that they needed something in writing requesting the information? I heard nothing back from the ED until I reached out to her on Friday to check to see if the records would be ready. That is when she told me they needed the request in writing, which she already had in the email I sent to check on the status. They may have procedures to follow but I was never informed of what they are. I still to this very minute have not been informed of what they are. Here is the latest email I received at 7:03 pm this evening.
Our documents are with the lawyer being reviewed. Once they have completed this process, they will contact us to give approval to release to you. I do not have a timeline on this turnaround as of yet. I will definitely keep you posted as I hear from them.
Oh? So there is a super secret procedure that they aren't telling the OP? Is he supposed to guess that someone needs to be there in person ? Why are you making excuses for their rude uncooperative unprofessional bureaucratic behavior and claiming rules that you don't know apply to this place?
They aren't telling him anything that you said they're telling him it's under review by legal. Open ended, if we take the op at his word.
The super secret procedure is state apecific and there are laws governing the OP request.
It would be a simple matter for the facility to have explained everything in one sentence that's applicable to his particular case but they didn't.
Why are you jumping to the most ridiculous assumption that we think they should just sashay over to the copy machine?
The family expectations may be wrong and perhaps the OP isn't telling us the complete story such as the POA brothers may not be as annoyed as he is, and hes being a pain, but that doesn't justify their behavior concerning a routine matter.
I could make up an even better excuse that being that he's not formally out of there until the 21st
And that's exactly why we have had to enact laws governing the behavior of these places.
We are all equally annoyed with this place and want the records (I'm my dad's daughter btw)
I may be being a pain to the ALF but I don't care, this is about my fathers care
It just seems to me that it should not be so hard to get your dad's medical records! Maybe they are afraid your family will bring some action against them???
I'm not going to argue, but the nursing department would have had no idea what the procedure is. It;s not a "super secret" procedure, for goodness' sake.
Also they always send medical records to the new facility when someone is transferred. If the new facility called for the records they would have gotten them right away. If OP said instead of WE want the records, we want the records sent to ABC nursing home, they would have been sent. It is different.
What on earth would you think they might be hiding?? ALF's don't run around trying to hide people's records, they just don't. They also get sued all the time just as all health care facilities do, they don't run around afraid to show records due to that. This is a corporation most likely, they are crossing their t's and dotting their i's because that's how corporations do things, and they worry much more about HIPAA than family member lawsuits.
I had to run in circles to get my mom's financial info from banks and her pension company even with the POA, because that's how corporations work. It sucks, but its no grand conspiracy. But you guys believe what you want.
They are medical records, what is there for the Lawyers to review? Also who authorized these lawyers to access and read the fathers medical records?
I think you are in my brain! I asked that exact question.
The response I got back was that it was there company policy that all records are reviewed by legal before releasing.
I keep finding out bits and pieces of this policy day by day.
I am in touch with corporate so hopefully I will have what I want soon.
We are all equally annoyed with this place and want the records (I'm my dad's daughter btw)
I may be being a pain to the ALF but I don't care, this is about my fathers care
As you should.
You can see from the link I posted that you are in a very common position.
SO common, in fact, that laws have had to be enacted to at least give the CLIENT some type of ability.
NEVER believe anyone who tells you senior care places don't hide things or falsify records.
Just peruse the case law and OUTCOMES AND FINES.
I've seen it a zillion times from charting they gave meds when they didn't and only left them on the tray - to 3 PEOPLE ILLEGALLY RESTRAINING my client in ASSISTED LIVING.
Which not only is illegal but MORONIC considering ALF is completely voluntary and the resident doesn't have to do a single thing they say.
Why did they restrain her? LAYING IN HER BED? Because she didn't want to get up and bathe.
They can kick them OUT but they can't force them to do anything.
When I pointed to them (LPN, CNA, HHA) and said "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW RIGHT NOW" it still took me 3 other statements for them to release her. They LITERALLY tried to justify it!
Then the next day they kicked her out LOL.
Pretty sure THAT isn't in "the records".
I have a million of these stories of FIRST HAND experience.
How about letting some GUYS from around the neighborhood who nobody KNEW come IN THE ALF and wander around going in and out of the women's rooms with their DOGS? YEP.
Bet that crap isn't "in the records" either.
Call your state ombudsman, file a complaint form with your state agency.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-19-2017 at 04:48 PM..
NEVER believe anyone who tells you senior care places don't hide things or falsify records.
Just peruse the case law and OUTCOMES AND FINES.
I've seen it a zillion times from charting they gave meds when they didn't and only left them on the tray - to 3 PEOPLE ILLEGALLY RESTRAINING my client in ASSISTED LIVING.
Which not only is illegal but MORONIC considering ALF is completely voluntary and the resident doesn't have to do a single thing they say.
Why did they restrain her? LAYING IN HER BED? Because she didn't want to get up and bathe.
They can kick them OUT but they can't force them to do anything.
When I pointed to them (LPN, CNA, HHA) and said "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW RIGHT NOW" it still took me 3 other statements for them to release her. They LITERALLY tried to justify it!
Then the next day they kicked her out LOL.
Pretty sure THAT isn't in "the records".
I have a million of these stories of FIRST HAND experience.
How about letting some GUYS from around the neighborhood who nobody KNEW come IN THE ALF and wander around going in and out of the women's rooms with their DOGS? YEP.
Bet that crap isn't "in the records" either.
Call your state ombudsman, file a complaint form with your state agency.
I'm not even going to bother arguing your points, but with the bolded, above, I just have to..are you talking about the volunteers who come in and bring their pets to see the residents? Our residents AND staff LOVE these pets. The facility knows who they are, they don't just wander in off the street, they have to fill out forms and many times undergo background checks to volunteer (this doesn't apply for special things like kids who come with a school class to hand out Valentine's or something) and show proof of shots etc.
Residents are asked if the person wants to see/pet the dog before they bring the dog over to them. Even family members bring in people's pets from home, and it does more than we in therapy could ever do for that person's well-being.
I am the first to admit elderly care leaves a lot to be desired and needs many improvements (as does our entire health care system) but they are not the 3rd-world hell holes you make them out to be. I will also defend your accusation about falsified records, I have NEVER seen this happen even when the facility (or us) makes a giant mistake that is totally their/our fault (as humans yes we do make mistakes, sorry) we have never been told/advised to hide or omit any detail. If a resident has a skin tear he didn't have when he arrived in therapy, or someone falls while we're practicing tub transfers, we own up to it. If the person who fell wasn't wearing a gait belt, we don't say he was so we don't get sued, and if we did we'd not only get fired we'd lose our licenses.
You make it sound like we don't love or bond with our people, that no one cares if they are cold or hungry or don't like dogs (YOU"RE GONNA PET THAT DOG OR NO PUDDING TONIGHT MURIEL!") and basically have no integrity period, and I can't just let you do that, because it's not true.
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Well, I got the records! There is not one record in there of anything that the ALF did. Not one note from them, no acknowledgement of a meet we had with them in April. NOTHING
The "progress notes" are all from the outside nursing service, the doctor that would come in to see him, and another doctor that my dad would go to.
It's as if the ALF did nothing for him for the entire 4 1/2 months he was there.
Well, I got the records! There is not one record in there of anything that the ALF did. Not one note from them, no acknowledgement of a meet we had with them in April. NOTHING
The "progress notes" are all from the outside nursing service, the doctor that would come in to see him, and another doctor that my dad would go to.
It's as if the ALF did nothing for him for the entire 4 1/2 months he was there.
That raises an interesting question..
So, an ALF is "assisted Living facility" - but most of the assistance (at least in the brochures, etc.. I've seen) are not "medical".
There is often help with housekeeping, laundry, meal preparation, etc..
Does this ALF perform any "medical services"? If so, are they contracted out to a separate wing of things, which is why the ALF itself doesn't have records of it?
I would certainly not expect a medical record of "told Mr. Smith breakfast was available in the cafeteria". I would expect a medical record of "changed dressing on Mr. Smith's abdomen".
I think as ALFs become more and more medicalized (that is people who should be in SNF/nursing homes use ALFs as a substitute) this will become more common for people to run into..
Glad you got the records, sorry they were incomplete (but again, I don't know that I'm surprised..)
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) and basically have no integrity period, and I can't just let you do that, because it's not true.
