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It is a myth that dry kibble is good for cats' dental health. (Yup, I bought into that myth as well at one time.) Cats are unable to chew/grind their food like dogs are able to do. Dry kibble actually sticks to their teeth and causes dental problems. Ask your vet!
You included some interesting information. I have to disagree with you on one point. I've seen my cats chew on their dry kibble many times. I sometimes even have to clean up the partial bits of food they leave behind. They are NOT just swallowing it.
I've seen my cats chew on their dry kibble many times. I sometimes even have to clean up the partial bits of food they leave behind. They are NOT just swallowing it.
Zitsky, look into the mouth, at the teeth. None shaped to grind in there. None. They can only BREAK the food so much, as is evidenced by the "partial bits" you see before your eyes.
Also, watch the cat eat. You will SEE that its jaws do not rotate.
If you don't believe your eyes, any Zoo can gladly confirm this info.
Look at the cereal a cat spits (or vomits) out, then what a human or dog would. We can grind, and rotate our jaws to chew it -- they can't.
[SIZE=2] Corn or no corn ... good protein, bad protein ...just what IS a good/bad protein anyways??
Why all these different beliefs? Why are we actually even attempting to conclude for ourselves just what is a suitable ingredient for a strict carnivorous mammal?
It ALL boils down to this -- many veterinarians who have NOT gone on to focus on Nutrition (such as Holistic Veterinarians do-- that's what makes them "Holistic" ) should NOT be giving anybody dietary advice as they are not studied to do so.
The UK is light years head of us in the US when it comes to not letting advertising $$$ stand in the way of News reporting.
See what Veterinarians in the UK are saying -- in their Major Newspaper over there: Is pet food poisoning our dogs? | Mail Online
Meanwhile in the US, have to dig really deep on the trusty Internet for what transpired in Washington, DC no thanks to the 2007 massive recall (remember that?) which was swiftly swept under the rug:
...While such changes may in fact be necessary, it is important to note that they involve only a small subset of the actors involved in the commercial pet food industry as a whole. Yet, interestingly, other important links in the pet food safety chain like the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), and even pet food companies like NestlePurina and Hill’s Science Diet have largely escaped public scrutiny.
For example, while there have been calls for the creation of a veterinary reporting system for the nationwide emergence of disease, veterinarians in general have faced very little, if any, criticism for their role in the 2007 pet food recall. At first glance, the link between veterinarians and the recall of hundreds of pet foods tainted by imported protein may seem obscure at best but even a cursory analysis demonstrates that there exists a longstanding and powerful connection between the pet food industry and the veterinary profession that might prevent veterinarians from dutifully fulfilling their oath to use their “scientific knowledge and skills” to protect “animal health.” Not only are some of the major pet food companies shareholders in AVMA itself, but AVMA is well represented on the boards of these same companies, as well as on that at AAFCO and other industry organizations like the Pet Food Institute (PFI) and the American Pet Products Manufacturing Association (APPMA). The largest pet food companies like Iams and Science Diet also have a major influence on veterinary education, providing students with lecture courses taught by industry scientists as well as free educational materials on animal nutrition like veterinary textbooks, The Purina Research Report, The Clinical Handbook, scientific proceedings and informational videos. These same companies not only sponsor student representatives at each of the twenty-seven US Veterinary Colleges, they also provide these schools with grants, scholarships, and even free feeding programs.
This paper will argue that the breakdown in the commercial pet food safety chain as evidenced by the 2007 recall...>>>
Saved the Best for last -- Veterinarians! This documentary has two veterinarians literally showing you the facts -- in the kitchen: [/SIZE]Viddler.com - Pet Food - A Dog's Breakfast CBC Doc Zone-1 - Uploaded by jennifergoodwin (http://www.viddler.com/explore/jennifergoodwin/videos/4/ - broken link)
Plenty more info out there, AND IT'S ALL FREE FOR THE TAKING!!
There are TOO MANY wonderful Veterinarians MORE than worthy of loyal, trusting clients -- Veterinary professionals who unfortunately remain secrets because of what they do -- and DON'T DO.
They don't let their intellect be insulted by believing whatever the Pet Food reps told them in Veterinary school!! They Study Further!!
They can crunch, but can not chew. Their teeth are adapted to rip and tear, not to grind. Even if your cats do crunch their kibble (and most don't, most do swallow it whole), what evidence is there that crunching on carbohydrate-laden dry food cleans teeth? Think about it for a second, how could that possibly work? Bathing the teeth in carbohydrate fragments combats plaque how? How clean do your teeth feel after eating a handful of dry cereal? If that could work, why are there not munchies for people to clean our teeth?
Having watched two different cats who ate the recommended kibble develop awful teeth, I am a firm believer that its a great hoax perpetrated by the pet food manufacturers and that best thing that millions of people could do for their beloved pets is to transition them to a more species appropriate diet as soon as possible.
Look at the cereal a cat spits (or vomits) out, then what a human or dog would. We can grind, and rotate our jaws to chew it -- they can't.
Dog's jaws don't rotate either. They have teeth similar to cats. Their jaws are meant to shear and rip and tear flesh and crush bone. You will never see a dog in a carrot or potato patch or in a corn or wheat field chowing down... unless it's a rabbit they caught amid the vegetation. All the carbo loaded kibble out there is no better for them than it is for cats.
Yet another good point which prompts me to dig and want to learn more!! (Funny when one googles for anything related to jaws of dogs, tho, all these pitbull hits come up ) You are so right. But cat vs dog....
=^..^=, check this out --
Look out, Alex Trebek! Talk about getting into the real nitty-gritty of it all!~ Scroll up a tad so that we can divulge into ... Hypocarnivory versus Hypercarnivory!!
You will never see a dog in a carrot or potato patch or in a corn or wheat field chowing down
Oh yes you could have. My beloved (now deceased) dog. LOVED carrots (whole carrots), strawberries, potatoes (she didn't get them very often, but she'd liked to have), and just about anything she could devour. She adored nearly all fruits and veggies, even broccoli and cauliflower. She got a couple whole carrots every day instead of dog treats. And she regularly ate cruciferous veggies. She also liked munching on the fresh spring grasses outside--you would have thought she was a cow, watching her grazing. And yes, she loved any kind of meat, fish, poultry too.
By contrast my cat is so finicky. She would cry to go in the pantry and then beg for the dog's no-grain Evo kibble, which was in there (though she had her own cat formula Evo). In fact she still cries to go in there. She turns her nose up at various wet foods more often than not (Evo, Merrick's, Wellness). I have some of my dog's leftover fresh/frozen raw food (Steve's Real Food - organic chicken formula) nuggets and defrosted that to room temp and the cat rejected it. It's CHICKEN! Raw no-hormone, organic chicken! Fresh salmon? FAIL. Tuna? FAIL.
When she eats kibble, she gets a mixture of Taste of the Wild- Feline (no-grain) and Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken (no-grain). I'm doing the best I can do and still give her some wet food every day (or at least offer it). But I can't force her to eat something she simply doesn't like or want.
Dog's jaws don't rotate either. They have teeth similar to cats. Their jaws are meant to shear and rip and tear flesh and crush bone. You will never see a dog in a carrot or potato patch or in a corn or wheat field chowing down... unless it's a rabbit they caught amid the vegetation. All the carbo loaded kibble out there is no better for them than it is for cats.
I was going to address this as well...dry kibble absolutley does cause tartar on dogs' teeth, contrary to what most people think. Dogs are omnivores, so it's okay for them to have a variety of food besides meat, but even with a high-quality grain-free kibble, it's much better to hydrate it first so they don't have to crunch it, and with plant material/raw veggies it's better to puree in a food processor or blender. My BF's dogs were all on dry kibble for a very long time (grazers) and their teeth were HORRIBLE...tartar, plaque, and a few are even chipped from the kibble being so hard. My dogs have been eating a combo. of dehydrated raw, homecooked, and hydrated grain-free kibble mixed with meat, and their teeth are in very good condition. It took me literally showing him this difference (one of his is the same age as 2 of mine) for him to change the regime and start hydrating their kibble/adding real meat as well as brushing regularly to get these teeth in better condition. Dentals were necessary (and very expensive) in his case, but mine have never needed dentals because of the way I feed them and because I brush their teeth regularly myself. Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but I know many cat owners also have dogs here on this forum, and since it came up I had to pipe in here...! On a lighter note, one of my little dogs would totally attack a carrot patch if she found one, LOL...she's carrot (and sweet potato) OBSESSED!
\ You will never see a dog in a carrot or potato patch or in a corn or wheat field chowing down... unless it's a rabbit they caught amid the vegetation.
Just had another thought --(of course putting their natural instinct and what is biologically appropriate for them aside for humor's sake here).
We were always "dog people" first as we grew up with so many, so this is not a knock on dogs. Gotta forgive them for they don't have what is natural surrounding them, but do still have to wonder about their judgment sometimes,..
these born scavengers, how many dog owners have a problem with their dogs before being trained with the wonderful word "NO!" not to eat shoes; telephones, pencils, furniture (ranging from wood dining sets to a LayZeBoy recliner chair), clothing ... tissues...
This could inspire a reeeeally fun thread for the dog forum! Weirdest things found in dog poop!
(Of course there are sad anecdotes as well, but gonna stick to the positive here.)
Last edited by Pamina333; 11-13-2010 at 01:23 PM..
Yet another good point which prompts me to dig and want to learn more!! (Funny when one googles for anything related to jaws of dogs, tho, all these pitbull hits come up ) You are so right. But cat vs dog....
=^..^=, check this out --
Look out, Alex Trebek! Talk about getting into the real nitty-gritty of it all!~ Scroll up a tad so that we can divulge into ... Hypocarnivory versus Hypercarnivory!!
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) should NOT be giving anybody dietary advice as they are not studied to do so. 
) You are so right. But cat vs dog.... 
! On a lighter note, one of my little dogs would totally attack a carrot patch if she found one, LOL...she's carrot (and sweet potato) OBSESSED
!
chair), clothing ... tissues... 
