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By "persona" or "icon" I mean what they project on-screen (either in a role, or when representing themselves, say, on a talk show). So please give more weight to what you saw them project on-screen than what you know about their personal lives. Please compare them according to your own impression, not what you think they signify to others.
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As for me, I'm voting for Woody Allen, based on this opinion I offered in another thread:
So why do you violate your own rule here? You say only to comment on what they project on-screen, then you "base your opinion" on a piece of writing that discusses the formation of characters off-screen ...
Anyway, Clooney 100%. Allen plays the insecure, paranoid nebbish to perfection.
I agree wholeheartedly....also do not get why you would think Allen is confident on OR off screen.....I just don't see it.
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Originally Posted by SifuPhil
So why do you violate your own rule here? You say only to comment on what they project on-screen, then you "base your opinion" on a piece of writing that discusses the formation of characters off-screen ...
Anyway, Clooney 100%. Allen plays the insecure, paranoid nebbish to perfection.
1979 shouldn't be way before anyone's time, and besides, you're missing out on a lot if you're only looking at culture that happened after you were born.
1979 shouldn't be way before anyone's time, and besides, you're missing out on a lot if you're only looking at culture that happened after you were born.
Well, not everybody should be interested in lil' neurotic Woody. What ticked me off was the statement about black and white. Some of the most artistic movies and photography are done in black and white, even now.
I don't think goofiness is equal to confidence. Clooney was plenty goofy in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou. I see Allen as more self deprecating than self confident.
Yes, I agree, goofiness is not equal to confidence. What I'm talking about is a person not being afraid to show their true nature, human foibles and all (no matter how goofy it looks).
To speak in general terms: some people are afraid to accept and face the reality of who they are, and/or are afraid to reveal that reality. The reality of human beings is that they have strengths, weaknesses, virtues, foibles, etc. There are also some people who are not afraid to do that. Lack of fear, especially as it regards facing and revealing the truth about oneself, is a significant component of (not equal to, but a significant component of) confidence.
That's the basis for my opinion. If there's something I said above that simply isn't true, feel free to point it out to me (i.e., which sentence). I'm open to having my statements corrected.
I haven't seen all of Allen's or Clooney's movies, but I've seen Allen's characters do the above more than Clooney's characters.
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But once again - comparing movie roles for something like confidence doesn't make much sense to me.
Yeah, I know. I was just using Allen's characters as an example because they illustrate the above-mentioned quality in spades. Clooney's characters are not known for that; in fact, as someone pointed out, Clooney is the anti-Allen.
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Originally Posted by SifuPhil
So why do you violate your own rule here? You say only to comment on what they project on-screen, then you "base your opinion" on a piece of writing that discusses the formation of characters off-screen ...
You'd make a good lawyer. A good defense in this case would be to say that the paragraph existed prior to this thread, and citing it as a reference is valid (even if part of it might be seen as falling outside this thread's question). A better defense might be to say that I did specify at the top of this thread that "on-screen persona" includes TV interviews, which happen on-screen (TV screen), and that's a part of their professional life (they promote their movies, talk about the roles they took and why, etc.).
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Allen plays the insecure, paranoid nebbish to perfection.
True. I'm willing to say that insecure paranoia counts against him on confidence if you agree that not being afraid to show one's faults counts in his favor on confidence.
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Originally Posted by greatblueheron
I agree wholeheartedly....also do not get why you would think Allen is confident on OR off screen.....I just don't see it.
As for the characters they play, it's mainly because of what I said above (especially the "To speak in general terms" paragraph). As far as their professional lives as actors are concerned, it's about the roles they choose to play, Allen being the one who clearly shows the courage to take on roles that delve deeply into human foibles.
I voted Clooney because I wouldn't know woody allen if he walked through the door. As far as I know I've never seen him act, nor seen anything he's ever made.
Unfortunately this kind of thing goes on in political elections
I'd say Clooney. He has money, looks, enough acting talent, gorgeous women (and remains single but that's his choice), other interests, and his future still looks promising. Without his fame he would still attract the opposite sex.
Woody Allen is quirky and very talented and not afraid to go out there and execute his arts. I've always had the feeling that he's a bit insecure about himself, but many highly intelligent people are. And I'm sure he knows that his fame has provided him any personal happiness he's had. Because without his fame he would NOT attract the opposite sex.
Yes, I agree, goofiness is not equal to confidence. What I'm talking about is a person not being afraid to show their true nature, human foibles and all (no matter how goofy it looks).
To speak in general terms: some people are afraid to accept and face the reality of who they are, and/or are afraid to reveal that reality. The reality of human beings is that they have strengths, weaknesses, virtues, foibles, etc. There are also some people who are not afraid to do that. Lack of fear, especially as it regards facing and revealing the truth about oneself, is a significant component of (not equal to, but a significant component of) confidence.
That's the basis for my opinion. If there's something I said above that simply isn't true, feel free to point it out to me (i.e., which sentence). I'm open to having my statements corrected.
I haven't seen all of Allen's or Clooney's movies, but I've seen Allen's characters do the above more than Clooney's characters.
What you are asking us to do is basically impossible and you're not going to get the answer(s) you seek. You are asking us to give a make believe character a human trait. The characters that these actors portray and the "true confidence" they do or do not display are purely at the whim of the screenwriter. They are as confident as the people writing the story want them to be. I am sure that if you gave a Clooney role to Allen he would be able to "act" as confident as Clooney and vise versa. The real question is would anyone buy it? Can you really see Woody Allen as Danny Ocean or George Clooney as Alvy Singer? I would guess not.
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