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The United States now has a professional army, like the Roman army during the Principiate or the British army during it's Imperial days (and the American army during the Indian Wars). Soldiers enlist of their own will and fight as a profession.
Historically such the rankers of such armies came from the working class and the officers from the nobility and gentry. All were professionals. The United States differs from this model in that the officers come from the working and middle classes, the rankers still come from the working class. The American upper class avoids professional soldiering.
Really? Did you serve in the military recently? How many military officers do you know?
so pertaining to the subject of this thread; celebs who put their careers on hold for a war, are they then exempt because they are upper class? they certainly are not nobility or gentry.
Such celebrities were in the service during emergencies such as WW II when the nation was in arms and soldiering wasn't confined to the professionals. Or when people were drafted after WW II. During the War of the Rebellion, the Great War and WW II the wealthy often fought, the issues were considered that important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by f.2
in the 25 years that i've served i have worked side by side with many officers who were NOT middle or lower class. many, as in majority. during my last decade or so due to my rank the officers i mostly dealt with were of a higher rank - say O-5 to 3 star.
And from what social class did these people spring, were they born into the upper class? Americans have used soldiering as a means of education and social advancement since early in our history. Grant is a perfect example. The son of a middle class father he went to West Point for a free education and his talent for soldiering took took him to the Presidency.
Really? Did you serve in the military recently? How many military officers do you know?
I know none, only rankers. Do you assert that large numbers of officers come from the upper classes? If so that's quite interesting. Are many of these upper class soldiers southerners or Naval officers?
Where do you draw the line between the merely well to do and the uppers? Coming from a family income of $1,000,000 a year? I know guys in construction who make $250,000 so it must be pretty high.
Such celebrities were in the service during emergencies such as WW II when the nation was in arms and soldiering wasn't confined to the professionals. Or when people were drafted after WW II. During the War of the Rebellion, the Great War and WW II the wealthy often fought, the issues were considered that important.
And from what social class did these people spring, were they born into the upper class? Americans have used soldiering as a means of education and social advancement since early in our history. Grant is a perfect example. The son of a middle class father he went to West Point for a free education and his talent for soldiering took took him to the Presidency.
I know none, only rankers. Do you assert that large numbers of officers come from the upper classes? If so that's quite interesting. Are many of these upper class soldiers southerners or Naval officers?
Where do you draw the line between the merely well to do and the uppers? Coming from a family income of $1,000,000 a year? I know guys in construction who make $250,000 so it must be pretty high.
Your entire premise is now moot by your first three words. During my time in service, I've known both enlisted and officers who came from well to do or wealthy families. Most of the enlisted one's had screwed up. All military officers have a college education. For some, military service as an officer is a stepping stone to politics. Is the majority of military enlisted middle class to poor? Yes, it's always been that way. It's also true that the US Military has a career path for enlisted to become officers (either warrant officers or commissioned officers) if they show initiative, leadership skills, and knowledge. It's not an easy path, but it's not suppose to be easy, it's suppose to be earned.among the enlisted, these are the most respected officers.
Your entire premise is now moot by your first three words. During my time in service, I've known both enlisted and officers who came from well to do or wealthy families. Most of the enlisted one's had screwed up. All military officers have a college education. For some, military service as an officer is a stepping stone to politics. Is the majority of military enlisted middle class to poor? Yes, it's always been that way. It's also true that the US Military has a career path for enlisted to become officers (either warrant officers or commissioned officers) if they show initiative, leadership skills, and knowledge. It's not an easy path, but it's not suppose to be easy, it's suppose to be earned.among the enlisted, these are the most respected officers.
I defer to you.
Walter Krueger, who commanded the 6th Army in WW II started as a ranker in the Spanish War. As I recall Courtney Hodges who commanded the 1st Army in WW II also started as a ranker.
When I took my oath I honestly thought it was in defense of the United States. After seeing this and many things like it since it's hard not to feel deceived, manipulated, and foolish. As I get older I don't blame kids for not serving at all and if they do, that they know exactly what they're getting into.
I was in the Navy during Clark's time (1990-1998). I could not stand him. He was Clinton's personal butt kisser. Our view was he was selected based upon his personal politics rather than military leadership.
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