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States used pension money for other things and then turned around and said the pensions were killing the budget.
Yes and the pensions are outrageous, and typically include full healthcare benefits, as well.
You tell me: how many jobs in America should pay the same exact salary in retirement as folks got while working?
Outrageous.
Unions drove wages up and demanded agreements b/c manufacturers had no alternatives for skilled labor. Wanna get upset about China having our jobs? Ask the Unions why they effectively SENT our jobs to Asia b/c of their wage control and pensions.
Nothing happens in a vacuum. The fact that Unions would be involved in this movement is beyond ludicrous. I would say that there are many Union members whose greed is no less than anyone who works on Wall Street or in a bank! Talk about audacity! These are the folks who made sure their own wages went up up up - while your job went overseas.
If you don't see this as an extreme left wing mobilization I don't know what more to tell you. I've said this shortly after the first wall street protests, I posted it yesterday, and I'll say it again today: this entire occupy movement is a smoke and mirrors game based to energize the left. The average protestor most likely doesn't know what he or she is protesting, instead using it as an opportunity spew gag inducing rhetoric with words like "establishment", "capitalist", etc, yadda, so on and so forth.
You don't think it's funny to see this going on between an election year that saw heavy democratic losses and Obama's reelection year with extremely low approval numbers? Where was the occupy movement in 2008 when the banks were collapsing? Where were they in 2009 when the dust was settling? Where were then in 2010? Wait until just before an election year? Sorry, this isn't a "well it was time" protest but an orchestrated movement hell bent on energizing a silent democrat base.
What do they hope to do? Take down Wall Street? Take down BofA? Take down corporate America? It's ALL been operating business as usual, for better or worse. And it will continue to do so no matter the masses. Again, This movement is aiming their venom at the wrong target.
Instead of concentrating on the top 1%, maybe this movement should concentrate on making it themselves instead of taking it out on the so-called "super rich". So no, I'm not taking a stand against Wall Street and the top 1% because that's just silly. My problem lies way more with Pennsylvania Avenue. I didn't like the bailouts. I didn't like the stimulus. I wasn't a fan at all of raising the debt ceiling. I am NOT a fan of this U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time with numbers that rise so fast they're obsolete long after I hit "submit reply".
Again, they're barking up the wrong tree.
#occupywhitehouse
You are so on target. Amazing that folks can't see how they are being manipulated.
I think protests are good and in fact, have been wondering why the "average man on the street" isn't marching about job loss and this economic downturn.
But the place to march is in DC. The regs were passed by Congress! Corporate America isn't the problem; POLITICIANS ARE THE PROBLEM.
#occupywhitehouse (joining your movement, Brian. I promise I am not a member of a Union, lol)
And before I get blasted . . . I think some Unions are relevant but collective bargaining is an outdated concept. It's not like there isn't enough labor law on the books to protect the populace from child labor and 18 hour work days.
+1. I've rented apartments for the last 10 years because I did the math and the sub-prime credit stuff did not make financial sense to me. Simple as that.
As for student loans, I knew exactly what I was getting into. The interest rates are right there up front, and everyone has the option of doing variable or fixed rate, and calculating the inherent risks in each over time.
I am happy to read that there are people like yourself who read and think and do the math before signing ..........instead of blaming an unwise decision on others. Just because a loan is offered, it doesn't mean it is a wise decision. There are too many in our society blaming others for their own foolish decisions.
I think the banks could have helped their own bottom line if they would have been more willing to refinance for those in trouble with their mortgages due to job loss rather than foreclose. Now the banks have MANY foreclosed properties and fewer mortgage payments being made. I spoke with someone at a credit union who focused on NOT foreclosing. Is it really in the best interest of a bank or credit union to foreclose on properties or is it in their best interest to avoid foreclosing? Sure, they may have the "right" to foreclose, but I'm not convinced it's the smart thing to do.
I am happy to read that there are people like yourself who read and think and do the math before signing ..........instead of blaming an unwise decision on others. Just because a loan is offered, it doesn't mean it is a wise decision. There are too many in our society blaming others for their own foolish decisions.
I think the banks could have helped their own bottom line if they would have been more willing to refinance for those in trouble with their mortgages due to job loss rather than foreclose. Now the banks have MANY foreclosed properties and fewer mortgage payments being made. I spoke with someone at a credit union who focused on NOT foreclosing. Is it really in the best interest of a bank or credit union to foreclose on properties or is it in their best interest to avoid foreclosing? Sure, they may have the "right" to foreclose, but I'm not convinced it's the smart thing to do.
Agree with you 100% and will never understand why banks handled these situations so poorly. Now, they simply have a lot of empty houses sitting on the market - often being vandalized. Just incredibly stupid and bad business all the way around.
but, wall street is the perfect place for them to march because it is a symbol of the american financial industry. to say they are "not marching against the government" is not correct, they seem to be very angry at the government for being in bed with the financial industry. Hence, the protests on wall street.
I think you are correct about the government being in bed with the financial industry so why do some members of our government act like the financial industry is the enemy? like they're not in it together(?)....listen to the comments being made in the news about the financial industry, capitalism, and the protestors.....sounded to me like the government would like for us to believe the fault belongs to the financial industry aka Wall St....and the government is our "friend" trying to "protect us" from the evil financiers (!?!), small business owners who were profitable and became big business owners(!?!), inventors/businessmen like Steve Jobs who started out in a garage and ended up a billionaire....Apple stock traded on Wall Street....(?!?!) are they protesting against everyone on Wall Street or only a few or the banks or are they just angry in general?
Peaceful protest is allowed in this country--whether or not you have a well defined agenda--right? Some of those crowds reminded me of the ones protesting in Greece a while back.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
And before I get blasted . . . I think some Unions are relevant but collective bargaining is an outdated concept. It's not like there isn't enough labor law on the books to protect the populace from child labor and 18 hour work days.
Ani, I'm not going to blast you, but I firmly believe, based on my own experience, that the union question cuts both ways. In the broadcasting industry, I worked union & non-union, & overall it was a wash, until the 90s.
I worked with quite a few of the older men who were responsible for joining the unions in the 50's. I know why they did it. It was not because they liked unions in general.
Most of my time as a union member was as a member of a very small local where members & the union officials helped each other. After being attacked by armies of corporate lawyers & doing increasingly badly on several contracts the local (which had one part-time lawyer) was forced to dissolve & join a larger local that we knew was one of the locals that comes with the union goons & an army of lawyers. With a local, & a contract I was forced, many times, to work 18 hour days, for which I was paid for 17 hours. What the broadcast companies wanted would have made that seem like the good old days.
There is a local in the Charlotte area that deals with broadcasting employees, & I hope to be able to avoid having to join it, but if I have to, I will, & if I do, I'll have to also pay a fine because I got sick of the big crooked local & didn't buy a withdrawal card, but just quit paying base dues.
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
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I look at that US debt clock and I can see someone waking up after an evening of drunken tomfoolery, looking over to his left or right and asking "how did SHE get here and please don't tell me we did what I think we did."
Well, at least using the current rates we'll only be 23 trillion dollars in debt by 2015 and only 17 trillion using current Congressional Budget Office projections. That guy can feel better about what he drank and who he slept with using those numbers.
Just because a loan is offered, it doesn't mean it is a wise decision. There are too many in our society blaming others for their own foolish decisions.
This is an argument I see over and over. I'm just not sure what to think about it though.
When a lender and a borrower conduct business it is usually(always?) the lender who assumes the lion's share of the risk. So many risky loans were being offered that it put everyone who invests in the financial machine at risk. For goodness' sake, it just happened!
The defaulter ruins their credit, but they aren't owned by shareholders demanding prime plus one. But of course, banks are. Yet I'm not supposed to demand more from the banking industry, I'm supposed to blame a fool taking a loan. At least the fool didn't *know* they were entering into a fool's deal.
I'm just too dang stupid, I reckon... but I expect the financial professionals to make good decisions when others are too "foolish" to ascertain the difference.
Last edited by Native_Son; 10-08-2011 at 01:56 PM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native_Son
This is an argument I see over and over. I'm just not sure what to think about it though.
When a lender and a borrower conduct business it is usually(always?) the lender who assumes the lion's share of the risk. So many risky loans were being offered that it put everyone who invests in the financial machine at risk. For goodness' sake, it just happened!
The defaulter ruins their credit, but they aren't owned by shareholders demanding prime plus one. But of course, bank are. Yet I'm not supposed to demand more from the banking industry, I'm supposed to blame a fool taking a loan. At least the fool didn't *know* they were entering into a fool's deal.
I'm just too dang stupid, I reckon... but I expect the financial professionals to make good decisions when others are too "foolish" ascertain the difference.
This is why I said that it's a shared blame. Yes, it's your fault if you sign on the dotted line for a McMansion when you can only afford a Cape Cod. However, the bank professionals who are offering sleazy deals & pretending that you can afford the McMansion are also to blame. Not being an idiot, I refused to buy what I knew that I could not afford. For that reason, in my view, the blame is 60/40, with the 60 percent going to the person who signs for what they cannot afford.
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