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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brichard
I, for one, don't think you're out of your mind. All progress begins with a dream. I remember a certain naysayer here about 10 years ago who was constantly on here proclaiming that the planned LYNX rail line up South Blvd into Uptown Charlotte was a huge waste of money, nobody would ever ride it, and it would fail. He could not envision the type of development the line would generate. Now here we are with the northern extension about to open. I'm not in Charlotte now, so I don't know all the details about the casino and talks about a possible westbound light rail extension, so I appreciate all your insights and information. This sounds very exciting to me. I'm glad CATS is talking to Gaston County again. All these people have different interests, but they can mutually benefit one another. If they put their heads together they can do great things.
I just wish that someone with a bit of pull would talk the Bureau of Indian Affairs into approving the casino, or at least start a letter writing campaign that would tip the balance & get it approved. If they approve the casino, the Catawbas could invest money into this area & jumpstart the whole area.
It's interesting to see the "ad" before certain shows on NCTV for Sleepy Poet in Charlotte and Gastonia.
The casino will happen in it's sweet time. I think there must be an issue with how profitable they project it. Harrah's has several across the country, but most of them are in very spaced out areas. Charlotte/SC isn't exactly spaced out from Cherokee's Harrah's and the one in Murphy which draws the Atlanta/upstate SC crowd.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kynight
The casino will happen in it's sweet time. I think there must be an issue with how profitable they project it. Harrah's has several across the country, but most of them are in very spaced out areas. Charlotte/SC isn't exactly spaced out from Cherokee's Harrah's and the one in Murphy which draws the Atlanta/upstate SC crowd.
If the casino is approved it will be Hard Rock Cafe. The Seminoles are agreeable to work with the Catawbas & they work with Hard Rock. The Cherokees are POed, but Cleveland, Gaston, & Mecklenburg are 3 of the counties in the Catawba's service area, by treaty, so it's really none of their business.
Where I live now, there is a sacred zone of historic buildings in the very center of the city that cannot be touched. The skyscrapers have been built on surrounding blocks, and extend out from those surrounding blocks, but in that sacred historic core those charming historic structures have been left untouched and are now home to scores of bustling businesses: a wide variety of restaurants, bars, music, shops, etc. The streets are crowded there every day and night of the week. This is what should have been done in Charlotte. But as it wasn't, so the next best thing would be to turn Gastonia's large downtown into such a destination.
You have me wondering as to where you live now ...
From the time that I first visited Charlotte in 2008, I canvassed the City, looking for a "Main Street" district - thinking that there *had* to be one. After a year or two, I realized that there wasn't a "Main Street" in Charlotte, nor will there ever be one.
I find recent developments in Charlotte as being "odd"; I am no longer a kid, but I can't imagine bar hopping in South End, half drunk, walking around in a suburban/warehouse district (and on some streets, there are insufficient sidewalks). There's no streetscape; no ambiance.
Charlotte is remaking itself into the NYC borough of Queens: semi suburban housing districts, mixed in with multi story apartment buildings. And...because people a place to shop, and a place for recreation, there are malls and mixed use areas in between seas of multi story apartment buildings.
There are a few areas in Queens that draw people like Forest Hills, or Bell Boulevard (Bayside), but most people don't purpose to spend their recreational time and money in Queens. Malls and mixed use centers don't have the intrinsic "draw" factor of an Asheville, Charleston, or Savannah. I've never been to San Diego, but again, the "Gaslight" district draws people from all around.
And what's really frustrating about Charlotte, is the continual boast of "sustainability" - yet the sidewalks on the newly developed Stonewall Street are three or so feet wide.
Back to Gastonia, what you say makes a great deal of sense: Charlotte's mistake is Gastonia's opportunity. There's a great deal of commercial real estate, and most of that real estate has character. The layout of downtown Gastonia is perfect too, and well suited for walkability.
The main obstacles in redeveloping Gastonia are huge, however:
- No nearby college.
- Not close to employment centers in CLT, and no means to get there. I don't see Charlotte bridging the gap with LYNX, as Charlotte seeks to grow itself, and establish it's own image.
- Area poverty, and a poor image.
***
Downtown Rock Hill is rebranding itself, and it's downtown is similar to Gastonia's. Rock Hill has a much better shot at success, as SC State is interested in redeveloping Rock Hill - one of SC's largest cities. Winthrop University is nearby as well, which infuses the district with disposable income and physical labor.
Within the past year, CATS has come back to Gaston County asking them to cooperate with a light rail line. I've gotten the impression that Belmont isn't too keen on it. However, the mayor of Kings Mountain is. Remember, Kings Mountain is in both Gaston & Cleveland counties. The old commuter line that died in the 60s ran from Kings Mountain to Gastonia to Belmont/Mt Holly to Charlotte.
I am not challenging you, but I haven't seen anything about what you describe. Is it chatter, or are people really looking into doing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
The proposed casino has never been approved or denied. It's just hanging there. It would provide about 4,000 jobs without figuring in other businesses that would be attracted by the casino but not connected to it. There is the jumpstart for western Gastonia & Kings Mountain. Without a signature from a governor, the Catawbas wouldn't be obliged to give the state one red cent. They have said that their budget includes money for road enhancements. Once they start operating, I suspect that they'd see a benefit to helping out with a light rail line that would bring people from Charlotte to Kings Mountain via Gastonia, especially from the airport. It just makes sense. Some posters have said that I'm out of my mind. I prefer to think of it as hopeful.
I don't think you're out of your mind.
In the 1930's/40's, I had cousins that owned land in an area 25 miles east of Manhattan. They dumped the land, with the thought that "they'll never build anything out here."
***
Two thoughts with respect to the casino:
1) There's talk of building a casino in Rock Hill, along with a film studio.
2) Would not Rock Hill be a better area for a casino? A portion of Rock Hill is undeveloped, and a casino could be built there, without impacting local residents with localized crime, prostitution, etc. (the Indian Reservation is located on the Catawba, and the surrounding area is somewhat rural)
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL
I am not challenging you, but I haven't seen anything about what you describe. Is it chatter, or are people really looking into doing something?
I don't think you're out of your mind.
In the 1930's/40's, I had cousins that owned land in an area 25 miles east of Manhattan. They dumped the land, with the thought that "they'll never build anything out here."
***
Two thoughts with respect to the casino:
1) There's talk of building a casino in Rock Hill, along with a film studio.
2) Would not Rock Hill be a better area for a casino? A portion of Rock Hill is undeveloped, and a casino could be built there, without impacting local residents with localized crime, prostitution, etc. (the Indian Reservation is located on the Catawba, and the surrounding area is somewhat rural)
There was something about CATS & the now-wanted light rail to Gaston County in the Kings Mountain Herald, months ago. The Kings Mountain mayor has been talking about it for months. I read somewhere that CATS has approached the Gaston/Cleveland/Lincoln transportation group & the Cabarrus group, but this is about Gastonia.
There was something approved about gambling in SC years ago. Some buildings were put up at exit 106 & then it was rescinded. The Catawbas still own the land at exit 5. They won't have an easier time getting a casino approved in Rock Hill. The casino at exit 5 would provide jobs to make the poverty situation that you're speaking off much lower.
You have me wondering as to where you live now ...
LOL, you touched on where I lived when you mentioned the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego. San Diego is where I live, and the Gaslamp Quarter is that sacred heart that developers have built around, but not built within. Like Charlotte is experiencing now, there is a major construction boom in DT San Diego. It seems like every time I go downtown, I see another high-rise going up that I had never noticed before. But not in the Gaslamp! That is not to be touched. New Orleans is another example. Imagine if they had allowed developers to knock down the French Quarter and put up skyscrapers. There would be beautiful views of the water from those towers if they had done that, but New Orleans without the French Quarter would not be New Orleans.
Back to Charlotte and Gastonia, I love your comment "Charlotte's mistake is Gastonia's opportunity." (From what I've seen of Atlanta, they made the same mistake.) But you make a good point about factors, such as poverty and image, being obstacles to Gastonia's development. But I saw a comment on another board from someone who suggested that the Charlotte River District development may start a wave of westward development towards Gastonia. Charlotte first grew towards the south, then to the north starting in the late '80s. Now is the time to go west. If more people move in, and more affluence, a resurgence of DT Gastonia, and transition into an entertainment mecca could take shape. (Below are pictures of the formerly vibrant downtown Gastonia from 1912, and the 1950s and 1960s.) I also agree with you that Rock Hill has those possibilities.
BTW, your comments about South End are so on point. I've felt that way about South End, but didn't have the words. You said it perfectly. I like what's happening there and that they have found a use for those old warehouses, but there is still an oddness about it.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL
You have me wondering as to where you live now ...
From the time that I first visited Charlotte in 2008, I canvassed the City, looking for a "Main Street" district - thinking that there *had* to be one. After a year or two, I realized that there wasn't a "Main Street" in Charlotte, nor will there ever be one.
I find recent developments in Charlotte as being "odd"; I am no longer a kid, but I can't imagine bar hopping in South End, half drunk, walking around in a suburban/warehouse district (and on some streets, there are insufficient sidewalks). There's no streetscape; no ambiance.
Charlotte is remaking itself into the NYC borough of Queens: semi suburban housing districts, mixed in with multi story apartment buildings. And...because people a place to shop, and a place for recreation, there are malls and mixed use areas in between seas of multi story apartment buildings.
There are a few areas in Queens that draw people like Forest Hills, or Bell Boulevard (Bayside), but most people don't purpose to spend their recreational time and money in Queens. Malls and mixed use centers don't have the intrinsic "draw" factor of an Asheville, Charleston, or Savannah. I've never been to San Diego, but again, the "Gaslight" district draws people from all around.
And what's really frustrating about Charlotte, is the continual boast of "sustainability" - yet the sidewalks on the newly developed Stonewall Street are three or so feet wide.
Back to Gastonia, what you say makes a great deal of sense: Charlotte's mistake is Gastonia's opportunity. There's a great deal of commercial real estate, and most of that real estate has character. The layout of downtown Gastonia is perfect too, and well suited for walkability.
The main obstacles in redeveloping Gastonia are huge, however:
- No nearby college.
- Not close to employment centers in CLT, and no means to get there. I don't see Charlotte bridging the gap with LYNX, as Charlotte seeks to grow itself, and establish it's own image.
- Area poverty, and a poor image.
***
Downtown Rock Hill is rebranding itself, and it's downtown is similar to Gastonia's. Rock Hill has a much better shot at success, as SC State is interested in redeveloping Rock Hill - one of SC's largest cities. Winthrop University is nearby as well, which infuses the district with disposable income and physical labor.
Belmont Abbey College is in Belmont. Gaston/Lincoln community college is in Dallas. Students commute to UNCC from Kings Mountain & Gastonia. There are college students, but they aren't very visible, unless you've been near that restaurant/club near the Target on a Friday evening. However, commuter students are a bit more likely to have spending cash. It's much cheaper to live at home & commute.
There is currently commuter bus service into Charlotte. That can be increased if needed.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by brichard
LOL, you touched on where I lived when you mentioned the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego. San Diego is where I live, and the Gaslamp Quarter is that sacred heart that developers have built around, but not built within. Like Charlotte is experiencing now, there is a major construction boom in DT San Diego. It seems like every time I go downtown, I see another high-rise going up that I had never noticed before. But not in the Gaslamp! That is not to be touched. New Orleans is another example. Imagine if they had allowed developers to knock down the French Quarter and put up skyscrapers. There would be beautiful views of the water from those towers if they had done that, but New Orleans without the French Quarter would not be New Orleans.
Back to Charlotte and Gastonia, I love your comment "Charlotte's mistake is Gastonia's opportunity." (From what I've seen of Atlanta, they made the same mistake.) But you make a good point about factors, such as poverty and image, being obstacles to Gastonia's development. But I saw a comment on another board from someone who suggested that the Charlotte River District development may start a wave of westward development towards Gastonia. Charlotte first grew towards the south, then to the north starting in the late '80s. Now is the time to go west. If more people move in, and more affluence, a resurgence of DT Gastonia, and transition into an entertainment mecca could take shape. (Below are pictures of the formerly vibrant downtown Gastonia from 1912, and the 1950s and 1960s.) I also agree with you that Rock Hill has those possibilities.
BTW, your comments about South End are so on point. I've felt that way about South End, but didn't have the words. You said it perfectly. I like what's happening there and that they have found a use for those old warehouses, but there is still an oddness about it.
In post-WWII America the thing to do was blow your downtown to smithereens to build new. The city of Philadelphia bucked the trend & enacted severe zoning ordinances to rebuild & gentrify a slum called Society Hill. I remember, when I was in college, & they were nearly finished & the gentrification was sliding into an adjacent neighborhood, Queen Village, it was openly discussed that Philadelphia was the laughing stock of the US for rebuilding all of that very old housing stock. So. . .what Charlotte did was go with the flow. I cringed when they knocked down a perfectly good old building to build the ballpark.
Gastonia has plenty of old & people who'd like to keep it & repurpose it. They've also got some not-so-old buildings that will get torn down. They've got a plan, which is good.
There was something about CATS & the now-wanted light rail to Gaston County in the Kings Mountain Herald, months ago. The Kings Mountain mayor has been talking about it for months. I read somewhere that CATS has approached the Gaston/Cleveland/Lincoln transportation group & the Cabarrus group, but this is about Gastonia.
I know that Donald Trump campaigned on rebuilding our infrastructure, and I hope to see that commitment come to fruition.
I don't know that the State has the funds (or the will?) to bring the light rail west of Charlotte. For whatever reason, people are determined to see this area grow, and if that's the case, a light rail system is necessary.
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