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Those toll lanes are the mistake of the century. Toll road operators simply do not enter into a contract to operate a toll road unless there is a guaranteed return on investment. The problem is, the roads very rarely see the traffic they were forecast to see, which mean they don't bring in the amount of revenues as predicted when the state was selling the toll road idea to the public. As for I-177, the private contractor is not likely recoup its costs, and then the state (taxpayers) will be on the hook to make up the difference. Guaranteed that's part of the contract that legislators didn't want to tell taxpayers. Numerous examples all across the country....to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Don't believe me? The entire country is littered with Public Private Partnership failures to the tune of many billions of dollars. Look it up. It's a scam, and taxpayers should be ashamed of allowing it to continue.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
What an unfortunate situation? I wonder if there is a remedy now...
There was a very long thread about the situation that was going on at the time. There are solutions, none of them are good. This is very purple state.
Since this thread is directly related to I 77, I'll just say that when we have people, who plan to use I 77 when traveling through the area, I frequently suggest that they use 321 between Hickory and Gastonia, depending on their point of origin and their destination. This is a very large area, geographically. A lot of us are transplants. We may know our own part of the area, but not necessarily the whole area, although there are a few who travel the whole area for jobs. However, we get our news from the same stations.
It also depends on which version of the area you're referring to. For instance, a piece of my town is in the MSA. The whole town is in the CSA, and the whole town is in the Charlotte urbanized area.
The argument isn't so much which roads are being done as free roads as some of the other ways that NCDOT shoots money. Yesterday I heard on the local news that they're installing a roundabout on the southern edge of the city that I live in, at an intersection that just needs a traffic light. If the Shelby bypass was going to be built as originally planned it might be a good idea. There is no purpose for this roundabout. I say this having learned to drive on traffic circles.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
What an unfortunate situation? I wonder if there is any remedy now...
And it's going to be interesting to see how traffic is affected once the toll lanes are open. Once the situation reaches an equilibirum - will congestion be significantly reduced, or will everyone avoid the toll lanes unless the general purpose lanes are at a standstill (or close to it)? I suspect that's how I'll use the toll lanes, as little as possible. And that could add insult to injury for local motorists as I assume Cintra is guaranteed some payback minimums on tolls. If tolls don't meet the minimum threshold, I assume the contract stipulates NC/NCDOT will have to fund the shortfall, hitting taxpayers for up to 50 years?
NCDOT is contractually prohibited from adding free lanes for 50 years. 50 years of congestion is guaranteed.
The reason that I drag the proposed casino just south of Kings Mountain into discussions of I 77 is that the proposal includes planned widening of I 85 from the state line to exit 8 of I 85, funded by the Catawbas. That's money that NCDOT wouldn't have to put out that could be used elsewhere, like for I 77.
If tolls don't meet the minimum threshold, I assume the contract stipulates NC/NCDOT will have to fund the shortfall, hitting taxpayers for up to 50 years?
Not sure about that, I think other companies that have run other US toll roads, just file for bankruptcy or something!
Remember Texas State Highway 130 built as toll alternative to I-35 east of Austin down to I-10.
Cintra-Zachry formed SH 130 Concession Company to manage the project. In exchange for the investment, the company received the right to collect tolls for 50 years in a revenue-sharing agreement with the state. The state owns the road while the company is responsible for financing, design, construction, operation, and maintenance over the life of the agreement.
In 2013, Moody's downgraded the company's debt to junk status due to low traffic revenues, raising the possibility that TxDOT might terminate its toll contract with the group. The company explored debt restructuring around December 2013, and was in danger of a payment default in June 2014, eventually filing for bankruptcy in March 2016.
On March 2, 2016, the SH 130 Concession Company, who operates the toll road between Seguin and Mustang Ridge, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The concession's CEO, Alfonso Orol, stated that the highway will continue to operate during the bankruptcy proceedings.
I drove I-77 in Oct as well as the year before. Both times I was stuck in heavy barely moving traffic for miles. I remember seeing trucks and cars not moving at all, on the other side of the highway. Talk about a backup. It obviously was road construction. So is this a toll road now? It wasn't in Oct. If so and its still a mess of construction. I will have to use 95 for part of my yearly trip North.
I drove I-77 in Oct as well as the year before. Both times I was stuck in heavy barely moving traffic for miles. I remember seeing trucks and cars not moving at all, on the other side of the highway. Talk about a backup. It obviously was road construction. So is this a toll road now? It wasn't in Oct. If so and its still a mess of construction. I will have to use 95 for part of my yearly trip North.
Only the new lanes that are being built will be tolled. The lanes that are free now will remain free.
I-77 was a parking lot way before the tolls.. I use to drive it daily from Davidson to Charlotte and Statesville to Charlotte before that years before the tolls were even announced..
I was speaking of congestion before the express lanes opened. Sure, it is much better now. But before the express lanes, it was common for backups during rush-hour to be from around exit 33 Brawley School Road to just before I485. That could easily take an hour or more during rush-hour and 1.5 hours was not out of the question.
Now the worst problem, once things return to normal, is I77 on the southside.
By the way, earlier I said that I85 was the priority for widening for NCDOT but the priority should have been I77. I think I may have been misunderstood. I was okay for the widening in Gaston County to six lanes. But the widening of I85 to eight lanes through Mecklenburg, Cabarrus, and Rowan Counties was not worthy. Rowan County does not need eight lanes and Cabarrus does not need it now-maybe later.
The money spent to widen I85 to eight lanes should have gone to I77.
By the way, earlier I said that I85 was the priority for widening for NCDOT but the priority should have been I77. I think I may have been misunderstood. I was okay for the widening in Gaston County to six lanes. But the widening of I85 to eight lanes through Mecklenburg, Cabarrus, and Rowan Counties was not worthy. Rowan County does not need eight lanes and Cabarrus does not need it now-maybe later.
The money spent to widen I85 to eight lanes should have gone to I77.
I think NCDOT's thinking (and I'm not saying it was right or wrong) is that when they were completing the I-485 beltway, you basically ended up with a two-lane bottleneck in each direction on I-85, with I-85 being 4 lanes to Salisbury, then 4 lanes starting/ending at Coddle Creek.
Going from 4 lanes down to 2 lanes then back to 4 lanes for 14 or 15 miles is crazy and not safe, plus I feel the ROW and design for this "missing section" of making I-85 4 lanes in Cabarrus and Rowan Counties was probably easier and cheaper than what they are going to have to do to widen I-77 from I-277 down to the SC border. That ROW there is quite tight with some crazy exit configurations.
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