Can Dolton be saved? (Chicago, Tinley Park: section 8, rentals, condominiums)

[His Majesty]

I know that Dolton is far from the only south side community that has severely deteriorated in the past 25 years, but my question is...can it be saved somehow?


I spent time in Dolton back in the late 70's. It was an idyllic portrait of suburban life. The nights on the porch watching the fireflies, the dips in the back yard pool, and most importantly, no gunshots in the air.

I could ride my Big Wheel down the alleys off of 142nd. I could walk to Andy's to get a hamburger and Ice Cream. I could go to Izzak Walton without being harassed.

Is Dolton lost? Gone? Ruined beyond repair, forever and ever, amen?

[Chummy Waters]

Saved from what?

[His Majesty]

Originally Posted by Chummy Waters

Saved from what?

The dark cloud of poverty and crime that has befallen it.

Can Dolton, and other south Chicago towns, find some way to rebound again, to regain their safe and productive communities?

[deechee]

Originally Posted by His Majesty

The dark cloud of poverty and crime that has befallen it.

Can Dolton, and other south Chicago towns, find some way to rebound again, to regain their safe and productive communities?

I actually like Dolton. Not too far from the city, shopping in River Oaks, Matteson, Indiana, etc. However, it has fallen in the last 20 or so years.

Everything is cyclical. Suburban growth may be a little slower than city growth, we just have to wait and see at this point.

[His Majesty]

Originally Posted by deechee

I actually like Dolton. Not too far from the city, shopping in River Oaks, Matteson, Indiana, etc. However, it has fallen in the last 20 or so years.

Everything is cyclical. Suburban growth may be a little slower than city growth, we just have to wait and see at this point.

Oh, I loved Dolton...then. I know the village had it's "White Flight" exodus, but I keep praying that someday the law abiding citizens, regardless of color, reclaim the town as their own. Clean it up, boot out the bad element, coax people to buy and not rent, create jobs (above and beyond the liquor stores and nail shops that litter Sibley Blvd.), and most importantly, have city leaders that actually give a crap.

But cyclical or not, is this a realistic goal? Can it be acheived? Can we walk those streets again without some punk sticking his Glock in your face?

[deechee]

Originally Posted by His Majesty

Oh, I loved Dolton...then. I know the village had it's "White Flight" exodus, but I keep praying that someday the law abiding citizens, regardless of color, reclaim the town as their own. Clean it up, boot out the bad element, coax people to buy and not rent, create jobs (above and beyond the liquor stores and nail shops that litter Sibley Blvd.), and most importantly, have city leaders that actually give a crap.

But cyclical or not, is this a realistic goal? Can it be acheived? Can we walk those streets again without some punk sticking his Glock in your face?

Yeah, I loved Dolton back in the day too. However, it takes the community to change things. When the people stand up and say enough, and start doing things, THAT'S when the town will clean up.

Also, just pointing out that renting is not always such a bad idea. The thing is not having so much section 8 rentals and charging fair rent, not $600 for a three bedroom home. Even more affluent towns sometimes have renters, including those on rental assistance programs.

I am not against section 8, or its participants - because some really need the program, whether it's because they are disabled, caring for children, or simply do not make enough money. All who receive government assistance are not the bad people some make them out to be.

I have no problem with nail shops, but liquor stores are certainly an issue, especially when there's too many of them. Loitering seems to be a main concern.

Again, it is cyclical, and we will have to wait for better transportation solutions, more jobs and community action. Otherwise, I just hope Dolton doesn't slip any further, because it is a nice place to live.

Just think of the midcentury homes there and the history!

[css9450]

Originally Posted by His Majesty

I could walk to Andy's to get a hamburger and Ice Cream.

I think Andy's is still there, isn't it? Or is that just an old sign on an empty storefront...

[Northwest Indiana]

I honestly think any place can be saved...however, it may not be saved in the way many people (especially some current residents) would....Often times, areas are saved by new affluent residents, that often price out the current residents..

Example: THE FOLLOWING IS JUST A SCENARIO

1985: Billy, his wife, and son live in Dolton until Billy is in middle school...

1995: When high school comes, the family moves to Tinley Park for better schools and amenities..

1995: Tanya and her daughter move to Dolton from Chicago because this is much relatively safer area and as a young single-mother, she cannot afford any other suburb. Although she does not like the area as much, it is much better than Englewood...however, as the years go on, the area becomes worse...

2000: More housing vouchers are provided and section 8 tenants start to come into Dolton in larger numbers...this creates the PERCEPTION that crime will increase, so more flight continues...as the area deteriorates, crime does actually begin to increase...

2020: Housing values are so low and gas prices so high that people are moving closer to the city. A land developer decides to raze Dolton and build high-end homes and condominiums and luxury amenities...NO rental properties will be allowed...Billy's son, who is now married with kids, is attracted to living closer to the city and he moves back to Dolton...Billy and his wife are tired of their Tinley Park McMansion, and want to downsize to a condo in Dolton to be closer to their son. This becomes a new trend.

However people who currently live in Dolton are screwed and have to find somewhere else to live because they can no longer afford to live in Dolton...they are then forced to move to further out areas...however, they are upset that the same city that people left is being rejuvenated by those same people and pricing the current residents out..




Obviously, this is a scenario, but I honestly believe that if the area was to make a complete turnaround, it would be in this fashion...The middle class is shrinking and the country or more and more (albeit slowly) becoming a two-class nation. Although many cities try to incorporate mixed-income housing, many of these developments fail to attract residents on the higher end of the spectrum because, let's be honest...who wants to pay market value for a place when they know another resident may have paid 30% less?

I believe the scenario I described is called "gentrification"....Whether we like it or not, this may be the only way to reclaim some areas.

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana

I honestly think any place can be saved...however, it may not be saved in the way many people (especially some current residents) would....Often times, areas are saved by new affluent residents, that often price out the current residents..

Example: THE FOLLOWING IS JUST A SCENARIO

1985: Billy, his wife, and son live in Dolton until Billy is in middle school...

1995: When high school comes, the family moves to Tinley Park for better schools and amenities..

1995: Tanya and her daughter move to Dolton from Chicago because this is much relatively safer area and as a young single-mother, she cannot afford any other suburb. Although she does not like the area as much, it is much better than Englewood...however, as the years go on, the area becomes worse...

2000: More housing vouchers are provided and section 8 tenants start to come into Dolton in larger numbers...this creates the PERCEPTION that crime will increase, so more flight continues...as the area deteriorates, crime does actually begin to increase...

2020: Housing values are so low and gas prices so high that people are moving closer to the city. A land developer decides to raze Dolton and build high-end homes and condominiums and luxury amenities...NO rental properties will be allowed...Billy's son, who is now married with kids, is attracted to living closer to the city and he moves back to Dolton...Billy and his wife are tired of their Tinley Park McMansion, and want to downsize to a condo in Dolton to be closer to their son. This becomes a new trend.

However people who currently live in Dolton are screwed and have to find somewhere else to live because they can no longer afford to live in Dolton...they are then forced to move to further out areas...however, they are upset that the same city that people left is being rejuvenated by those same people and pricing the current residents out..




Obviously, this is a scenario, but I honestly believe that if the area was to make a complete turnaround, it would be in this fashion...The middle class is shrinking and the country or more and more (albeit slowly) becoming a two-class nation. Although many cities try to incorporate mixed-income housing, many of these developments fail to attract residents on the higher end of the spectrum because, let's be honest...who wants to pay market value for a place when they know another resident may have paid 30% less?

I believe the scenario I described is called "gentrification"....Whether we like it or not, this may be the only way to reclaim some areas.

Does not seem any community in despair is going to be saved until we have some real economoic recovery instead of this nightmare we all have been wading thru the last several years.

It will take a new generation to change Dolton- I think Dolton is in a great location and eventually someday will rebound whether or not thats in our lifetime is probably not going to happen.

Sad truth of the matter a vast majority of people are hurting in the economy with stagnant wages if you have a job , high energy costs, high healthcare costs.etc everyone is getting a piece of the pie except the common guy or gal we need a break.

The thing too that bothers me it is getting harder and harder and harder to obtain credit.
How is a young twenty something going to come up with thousands of dolllars needed for a down payment on a home its puzzling.

Dolton and everyplace could use a huge push to regrain traction
Certainly hope it rebounds

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by northsiderebel

Dolton can't be saved if it is already gone.

Okay Revived
is this better