West side gangs and Oak Park (Chicago, Cicero: insurance, crime rate, homes)

[chitownperson]

According to a map Chicagogangs.org most of the gangs in the Austin area are between North and Lake, Austin and Cicero, which butts up against the central to north side of Oak Park. Looking at the Oak Park crime blotter, North Oak Park "generally" has less crime compared to central or south Oak Park. So much crime seems to be attributed to Austinites coming over to OP, so considering the location of Gangs on the west side, why does central and south OP suffer from more crime (in general)? Austin Blvd seems like a no brainer, Madison and Washington seem to be hot spots, the outer edges of the village gets it's fair share, so why the unequal balance in crime, especially considering gang location?

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

According to a map Chicagogangs.org most of the gangs in the Austin area are between North and Lake, Austin and Cicero, which butts up against the central to north side of Oak Park. Looking at the Oak Park crime blotter, North Oak Park "generally" has less crime compared to central or south Oak Park. So much crime seems to be attributed to Austinites coming over to OP, so considering the location of Gangs on the west side, why does central and south OP suffer from more crime (in general)? Austin Blvd seems like a no brainer, Madison and Washington seem to be hot spots, the outer edges of the village gets it's fair share, so why the unequal balance in crime, especially considering gang location?

You're comparing crime apples to crime oranges. Austin gang crime and crimes committed against more affluent Oak Parkers are two different things most of the time. Gangs are into selling drugs, stolen merchandise, and popping a cap into a rival. Desperate burglars and thieves are into breaking into garages and cars and mugging more well off people for wallets and iPads. East Oak Park's crime is mostly in the latter category. I'm sure there's some crossover, but I'm not surprised there's not a direct correlation between the location of gangs in Austin and general crime in east Oak Park.

[Chicago76]

Keep in mind that that the gang map you're looking at isn't very accurate. For one, gang corners/turf can be fairly fluid, so something last compiled in 2008 isn't going to be extremely accurate today, if it even was accurate in the first place. Secondly, the gang territories are reported by contributors to the site. There is a certain amount of exaggeration, where a gang affiliate is likely to say, "We rule the west side and have a set at corner X", when in reality there is nothing there but a couple of guys selling drugs who live in their Mom's basement playing XBox all day. It's likely that if you were able to show this gang map to someone at CPD who is part of a gang task force, they'd laugh at the map.

Central OP crimes are going to be heavy because central OP is more dense and there is more commercial foot and vehicle traffic. For example: going by crime per resident or per land area, downtown Chicago has high crime rates. If you factor in the number of people downtown at any given time out and about, the crime rate is actually very low.

The other thing that might explain this are trends in Austin and Berwyn, which border the E and S of OP. The City of Chicago probably hit rock bottom from a crime perspective around 1990. Austin was about 10 years behind the city-wide trend. As people got pushed out of the middle of the city in the 90s, they resettled in areas like Austin, which led to rival gang wars, people trying to fence stuff they stole in East OP, etc. Since 2000, the Austin has improved. It's certainly no paradise, but gangs get their turf sorted out, police have a decade to figure out the new environment, etc. Austin has also lost 15-20% of its residents in the past decade.

Berwyn in particular near South OP is a different thing altogether. Berwyn is now experiencing their transition. A decade ago, Berwyn has a lot of retired white people sitting in their homes watching bad television all day. Not a lot of crime carryover into OP. Today, there is a much bigger Hispanic community that shifted over from Pilsen, Little Village, etc. Most are law abiding residents, but gangs have followed. It takes time for gangs to sort their turf out, so in the meantime you have 12 year olds living on the same block whose uncles were/are in rival gangs like La Raza and Latin Kings. Not good. Gangs and crimes like theft don't necessarily correlate, but when areas with gangs where there is a lot of competition among difference gangs for drug trade often results in a lot of theft. From a purely clinical/economic viewpoint, the market needs to get sorted. Selling drugs is no different than selling anything else. If your uncle asks you to manage his insurance book of business, you (and he) know what you're making. Your quota is probably fairly reasonable. If you start up in a new market (Berwyn). You're more likely not to make your quota. Drug dealers falling short on their quotas (and you thought you had a bad boss) make up the difference elsewhere, which means stealing items they can convert into cash to give to their bosses. Berwyn and OP cops also are trying to figure things out in a changing environment+the physical barrier between south OP and the rest (the Ike) doesn't help either.....you get the idea.

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by BRU67

You're comparing crime apples to crime oranges. Austin gang crime and crimes committed against more affluent Oak Parkers are two different things most of the time. Gangs are into selling drugs, stolen merchandise, and popping a cap into a rival. Desperate burglars and thieves are into breaking into garages and cars and mugging more well off people for wallets and iPads. East Oak Park's crime is mostly in the latter category. I'm sure there's some crossover, but I'm not surprised there's not a direct correlation between the location of gangs in Austin and general crime in east Oak Park.

I was talking more about the correlation between gang locations and "north" OP. I agree that gang's probably aren't doing all the break-ins and robberies, but there are plenty of people over the border scoring drugs from the dealers there who have easier access to north OP as oppose to south OP, which is why I was asking.

[chitownperson]

Thanks for the perspective, Chicago76

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

I was talking more about the correlation between gang locations and "north" OP. I agree that gang's probably aren't doing all the break-ins and robberies, but there are plenty of people over the border scoring drugs from the dealers there who have easier access to north OP as oppose to south OP, which is why I was asking.

True but a substantial percentage of buyers of the drugs being sold in Austin are well-off suburbanites who don't need to steal your mountain bike for a fix. I'm also not sure if there are any "drug malls" in the area you cite where the customers go to. And as Chicago76 says, there may be issues with the accuracy of the map itself. It's not like gangs have a registered agent and corporate headquarters! They shift around all the time.

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by BRU67

True but a substantial percentage of buyers of the drugs being sold in Austin are well-off suburbanites who don't need to steal your mountain bike for a fix. I'm also not sure if there are any "drug malls" in the area you cite where the customers go to. And as Chicago76 says, there may be issues with the accuracy of the map itself. It's not like gangs have a registered agent and corporate headquarters! They shift around all the time.

But bike stealing is a regular activity in OP, so somebody is doing it on a regular basis. I'm sure there are plenty of suburbanites venturing to Austin, but there are plenty of junkies that live in Austin also. I believe that the gang maps are probably not 100% accurate, and probably don't have a "headquater" *****, but gangs do have regular turf, which is why turf wars arise. So I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that junikes are going to the same spots to score. I do think Chicago76 hits on something when he talks about the ratio of people on north vs central OP, and how crime needs to be contextualised relative to the population.

[Hatchetman]

What is the point of this thread? If you read the arrest reports, the dirt bags come from all over the city, not just Austin. They have cars. Personally, I have never seen any sign of gang activity in Oak Park.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Hatchetman

What is the point of this thread? If you read the arrest reports, the dirt bags come from all over the city, not just Austin. They have cars. Personally, I have never seen any sign of gang activity in Oak Park.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. The OP himself admits in the first post that there is no correlation between his theory and actual statistics. So what's the point here?

[Hatchetman]

I'm going to start a thread : "Nuclear Waste in Highland Park" and then make up some BS about radioactive vapors floating down from Zion.