Granny carts and delivery food: living carless in Chicago (Naperville: to buy, movies)

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by paytonc

For those of us who don't have to go to 79th & Cicero or to Calumet Fisheries very often (and yes, I've been to both multiple times), owning a car might not be the best use of money, time, or space. I don't disagree that it might be for others, but for these lifestyle decisions: to each his own. I'd rather spend money on airplane tickets than car payments -- I would rather visit other cities than visit the suburbs of my own city. It's like with mobile phone plans: I need mobile internet, while others might want unlimited minutes, but I'm not going to unilaterally and pre-emptively declare that either is "right" for someone else without first attempting to understanding their situation.

So, people who own cars don't have the money to travel? I guess it depends on the person. My car and mortgage payments together are less than the average person pays for rent.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

My car and mortgage payments together are less than the average person pays for rent.

Depends on the car and the house. Your house and car must not be very desirable.

[Bardot]

I concur with the suggestions to buy less, more often. Hauling groceries doesn't bother me as much as the cabin fever though. I've lived here 6 years total and still haven't been to the suburbs or explored the countryside of Illinois. I don't get to leave the city, and because I'm so tired of the CTA during the work week, I rarely use it during the weekend. I quite often stay within my neighborhood and the surrounding area. It gets old fast. Just to attend the movies, or visit a bakery can be a big to-do. I do try to travel outside of the state often though.

[ChicagoMeO]

It is nice to have a car to put all your stuff in rather than haul it on the bus or walking with a grocery cart. Sometimes the sidewalks are not cart-friendly,, with bumps and gravel and rocks. I tried it in my neighborhood near downtown, bad idea! It is also nice to get out of your nice neighborhood - even though you may like it, if you live near the lake, there is no Target or Wallmart. When I moved out to the suburbs a few years ago, it was so exciting to visit the Mall and Target because I had not been to one in 5 years (living in Lakeview 5 years).

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

It is nice to have a car to put all your stuff in rather than haul it on the bus or walking with a grocery cart. Sometimes the sidewalks are not cart-friendly,, with bumps and gravel and rocks. I tried it in my neighborhood near downtown, bad idea! It is also nice to get out of your nice neighborhood - even though you may like it, if you live near the lake, there is no Target or Wallmart. When I moved out to the suburbs a few years ago, it was so exciting to visit the Mall and Target because I had not been to one in 5 years (living in Lakeview 5 years).

You should have gone to the Target on Addison, which was a short bus trip (or car sharing trip) away.

Now there's the one on Broadway/Wilson. Right by the lake!

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

Depends on the car and the house. Your house and car must not be very desirable.

Or maybe I live in an ok area 1 mile west of the lakefront and don't owe a whole lot on my condo? As for the car, I guess you could call a late model Infiniti g35 sedan 'not desirable'. I think it's ok but nothing special.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

You should have gone to the Target on Addison, which was a short bus trip (or car sharing trip) away.

Now there's the one on Broadway/Wilson. Right by the lake!

Remember, going past Western is like going to the Forbidden Zone in Planet of the Apes to most new city dwellers.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

It is nice to have a car to put all your stuff in rather than haul it on the bus or walking with a grocery cart. Sometimes the sidewalks are not cart-friendly,, with bumps and gravel and rocks. I tried it in my neighborhood near downtown, bad idea! It is also nice to get out of your nice neighborhood - even though you may like it, if you live near the lake, there is no Target or Wallmart. When I moved out to the suburbs a few years ago, it was so exciting to visit the Mall and Target because I had not been to one in 5 years (living in Lakeview 5 years).

In August of this year I will have been car-free for 12 years now. During that time I've always had income comfortably above the national household average, and it's always been by choice that I live car-free.

Almost every year I consider getting a car - there is no use denying that there are times it would be convenient. And, truth be told, if iGo and ZipCar hadn't come onto the scene I would almost certainly be a car owner now. But with ZipCar now, I can easily use a car when I really need one, and can use a conventional rental agency for longer trips. All-in-all, I spend less on cars with ZipCar and regular agencies than I would if I owned a car of the same quality.

I was helping a friend look at used cars this weekend, though, and saw a '83 Benz diesel that wasn't appropriate for his needs but had me seriously considering snatching it up. It would work for me for 95% of my auto needs and probably cost me about the same to own and operate as I spend on ZipCar in a year.

Anyway, for a while I did the granny cart thing. It was a pain, but it got the job done. For the past 6 years, though, I've simply lived close enough to a grocery store that the "less food, more often" strategy works well. It's also helpful since I'm a) terrible about eating leftovers, and b) terrible about fully using perishable items before they go bad. Getting smaller amounts reduces waste for me.

I also do make an effort to get out into the neighborhoods instead of staying in my own. I don't find the CTA difficult to use for that at all. Especially since the advent of Bus Tracker. With the addition of Train Tracker this month, I think the CTA will actually, in some ways, be better than New York's MTA for ease of getting around. Of course it helps to live in an area where I can walk to work in 23 minutes and walk to movie theatres and all sorts of shops in less than 20 minutes.

As I've said in other posts, in a city like Chicago, living car-free tends to be the province of people so poor they can't afford any other choice, or people with enough means that they can make the lifestyle choice to be car-free and still ante up the dollars to mitigate the more inconvenient aspects of being car-free. I fall in the latter category, which allowed me to live pretty much wherever I wanted to and to choose an area that is convenient for the car-free person, to spring for taxis if I don't feel like waiting or walking, and to use ZipCar regularly. The very poor can't do any of those things. Most of the working class and lower-to-middle middle class can't afford or don't want to make the tradeoffs necessary to live in the most walkable areas, and if they do they then can't afford to use ZipCar and taxis frequently or have to make other cutbacks.

Anyway, for many working and middle class people, the prospect of owning a basic car and then living in a somewhat less walkable and notably less expensive area really does make financial sense.

Big box stores have been accessible to the north lakefront for quite a while. I used to go to the Target on Clyborn when I lived in Lakeview, and also have used the one on Addison. Recently I've used the one on Roosevelt Road and I also like the one on Broadway between Montrose and Wilson a lot now. WalMart, on the other hand, is hardly worth visiting. Lately it's just been a crap store with no-longer-cheapest, crap merchandise.

Being car-free does require that you think through things a bit more first. You have to plan better. And you have to accept that where people socialize and shop is often divided as much by car vs. carless as by any demographic difference. Beign carless doesn't mean no social life, but it does mean you're a lot mroe likely to be going to places well-served by transit. Since those places are almost always in dense areas with heavy traffic, drivers tend to avoid them and go places with better parking options. That's just the way it goes.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by chicagojlo

You missed parking off of there.

Parking doesn't have to be a significant expense.

What he did miss, however, is that for many people the transit pass cost can be pre-tax, while for all except business owners, the car-related costs will all be post-tax, yielding additional tax savings (especially for higher-income people and renters) for carless people.

[Tonks78]

Makes one walk more too, thus burning calories...losing weight....We've been w/out a car for five years and live in a great apartment near Cell One Field which is two blocks from our son's school and our church. All sorts of convenience, grocery(Jewel, Dominick's, Cermak Produce) and other stores/restaurants are w/in walking distance, Target is within walking distance thus we walk everywhere or take CTA or rent from ZipCar and Enterprise to go on big shopping trips(ala Christmas to the mall, etc...), roadtrips, IE, Great America, Key Lime Cove, the Ren Faire, hanging out in Indiana or Michigan for the weekend(there are daily, weekend and weekly rates, btw) and so forth. Don't mean to sound all tree-hugging and whatnot but it's also making us depend less on foreign oil and making less emissions, making us exercise more often and since we have kids including a stroller, we just shop for what we need and pack our backpacks(more exercise-generic weight training) and pack up that stroller which kinda makes us look like the Beverly Hillbillies (w/Grannie ontop?). My husband and I have lost 65 lbs between the both of us w/in a year, our son and daughter and dog are getting much needed exercise and fresh air...and it's fun! It's an expense we don't need right now.