What city should I move to Madison, Wi or chicago? (Evanston: how much, refrigerators)

[grapico]

Originally Posted by chikid

The class was great, if you are being serious about the question, great read is "Nature" by Peter Coates I believe. That was the book we used for class, which gives historical perspectives of the definition of nature throughout history throughout the globe.

There are certainly many transplants that live in places like Avondale, Albany Park, etc. I am not doubting that and I think it's great. I think when I went down to U of I for school, I started to realize the mentality that I was speaking about before. Like people asking why we don't have tortillas in Puerto Rico or being exposed to people who made it clear that they only want to live in Lakeview or Lincoln Park. They even told me that they felt Bucktown/Wicker Park was too ghetto? Ugh. It was funny because I would say 75% of the minorities that were in my program were all raised in the city, while everyone else was white and from the suburbs. Of course there were plenty of suburban kids who were very cultured and knew why tortillas were not part of Puerto Rican cuisine, but they were a small percentage.

Yeah without a doubt, I would have been a Phil major if I thought it might have been applicable to my goals. It was by far my favorite subject in college.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by chikid

The class was great, if you are being serious about the question, great read is "Nature" by Peter Coates I believe. That was the book we used for class, which gives historical perspectives of the definition of nature throughout history throughout the globe.

There are certainly many transplants that live in places like Avondale, Albany Park, etc. I am not doubting that and I think it's great. I think when I went down to U of I for school, I started to realize the mentality that I was speaking about before. Like people asking why we don't have tortillas in Puerto Rico or being exposed to people who made it clear that they only want to live in Lakeview or Lincoln Park. They even told me that they felt Bucktown/Wicker Park was too ghetto? Ugh. It was funny because I would say 75% of the minorities that were in my program were all raised in the city, while everyone else was white and from the suburbs. Of course there were plenty of suburban kids who were very cultured and knew why tortillas were not part of Puerto Rican cuisine, but they were a small percentage.

OK, I could understand some small farming community kids that came to Champaign for school I could understand. But were you suprised by the diversity of the student body itself? The number of international students? Madison and Ann Arbor are even bigger draws of international and coastal students.

[tonythetuna]

How does one exactly come up with Chicago or Madison? It is kinda difficult to come up anything more opposite than Chicago and Madison.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

How does one exactly come up with Chicago or Madison? It is kinda difficult to come up anything more opposite than Chicago and Madison.

Sure ones a huge city, and the other a largish college town, but they are only two hours apart. In terms of geographic proximity, choosing places that are within 2 hours of Chicago, your choices are Madison and Milwaukee.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Sure ones a huge city, and the other a largish college town, but they are only two hours apart. In terms of geographic proximity, choosing places that are within 2 hours of Chicago, your choices are Madison and Milwaukee.

I can see one considering Chicago or Milwaukee, but not Chicago or Madison. It makes no sense.

[chikid]

In regards to diversity at Champaign, the international students really were only part as graduate students. The undergrad population of U of I is not diverse and there are not THAT many international students when it comes to undergrads. Now when it comes to graduate students, U of I is very diverse from my experience. I guess I was referring more to undergrads in that case.

I wasn't even referring to so much in the case that U of I in terms of undergrad is predominantly white, but more so that everyone is from the same place, the Chicago burbs. At least places like the University of Michigan you have a ton of Michigan people and a huge percentage of out of state kids. I actually didn't graduate from U of I, I graduated from DePaul, which is about 35% out of state, which made it very interesting. Also, almost all the out of staters were from big cities, I met people from Seattle, Honolulu, San Fran, Salt Lake City, New York City, etc, which made the student body so much more interesting and diverse. Also the ethnic diversity was so much more than U of I, and the remaining 65% of students that were in state were a nice and even mix of people that were raised in Chicago, from the suburbs and people from elsewhere in the state of Illinois.

Not knocking U of I, it's a great school and far superior than DePaul academically and in recoginition, but diversity and culture imo, is not one it's strongest traits. I think the same can be said for schools like Iowa, Wisconsin and Purdue (again more so referring to undergrads and schools where a lot of Chicago suburban kids go) in which yes they have some diversity, but not really all that much when you compare it to schools like DePaul, UIC and Loyola .

[OhAcid]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I'm not here to start an argument, rather simply a civilized educated debate, to help the OP make his/her decision. Both are great cities: while "less is not necessarily more" I have to debate your reasoning.

You're forgetting to factor in that the OP is from an area much more urbanized than Madison is and that compared to Chicago - yes, Madison has much less to offer, even with it being home to the University of Wisconsin. Unless you're going to be attending the university, (which the OP is not) then there really isn't anything important about it that should be factored into this relocation discussion at all. There may be cultural attractions affiliated with the university, but there's still nothing that is going to compete with UIC, UC, Loyola, Northwestern, DePaul or the general array of dozens and dozens of independent specialized museums, galleries and institutions that Chicago has to offer in addition to these schools. Madison just does not hold up to the competition at all. I'm not going to discuss Ann Arbor, Columbus, Urbana or any other schools because they don't relate to the topic at all - they have nothing to do with Chicago on the whole directly. San Francisco, Boston and D.C. respectively, are all major population centers servicing areas larger than just their own cities with metro populations of 4 million+ people. Comparing the institutions of these cities to Chicago institutions based on in city population and claiming that Chicago "barley edges them out" is moot and irrelevant as you neglected to factor that data into the equation. Madison doesn't even approach one million people with the surrounding area included, that fact alone speaks for itself in terms of Chicago vs. Madison in regard to culture.

The University of Wisconsin at Madison has roughly 42,000 students.

Loyola and DePaul roughly 30,000. UIC 27,000 and UC 14,000. Well over the enrollment of UWM and not even including Northwestern and the dozens of other colleges and universities in Chicago with enrollments that are similar. Madison is home to a good university certainly, but like I said before nothing on par with Chicago and ultimately, it really has nothing to do with this woman's decision to move there.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment on the public school system. I'll agree that Chicago definitely does need to improve its school system, but attending a Chicago public school is definitely not going to be the downfall of your child's academic career, and it's not going to make as much of a significant difference as many people believe it will. Museums, galleries and cultural institutions are in place to further educate and to foster learning. I'm not trying to equate visiting a museum with attending a whole academic year of history class; but a school can only teach a student what he or she is willing to learn and work towards. If a student wants to learn and is prepared to take their education into their own hands then yes, supplementary education provided by dozens of world class institutions will definitely be beneficial and a practical hands on approach to learning. Anyone who has any delusions that living in Oak Park or Evanston simply for a nicer and "better" school to secure their child's future is placing to much faith in said school or institution and not enough in their child's own ability to learn and achieve independently.

Madison's "great lakes" are nice, but do not compete with Lake Michigan at all. Simply no contest. And if you're going to frequently drive two hours to shop (four hours round trip), it going to get very costly, very repetitive and soon the obvious conclusion of not living two hours away from a major urban center is going to become much more important living in a city with a nice university.

I don't doubt that Madison has a nice array of food options but if you're going to claim that you can find more options in a city of 200,000 people than in a city of nearly 3 million people then you definitely need to do more exploring in Chicago. The city is full of options, especially ethnic food.

Madison is a nice city, but that's just it. It's a "nice" city. Theoretically it competes with Chicago. You can go to a mini-mart for food, find a nice restaurant and be near a good university. But if you're looking for an vibrant array of options instead of a few choices in terms of culture, dining, vibrancy, and many other amenities - Chicago is the obvious answer and Madison is simply not on par with it at all. You didn't even touch on public transportation, (there is no competition) which is one of the biggest and best reasons to call Chicago home in itself. You cannot claim that the cities are "closer than people think" in terms of amenities, and conclude with a speech on Chicago being just a short drive or flight away for "everything" that you've lumped together that you can't find in Madison. If Madison really does offer nearly everything Chicago does as you say, then there would be no reason to leave Madison in the first place.

As a Twin Cities transplant, Madison will leave you significantly underwhelmed in more ways than one. Chicago will not. The obvious choice is Chicago.

[chikid]

^^^Chicago Public School System as whole needs some work, but the CPS has some amazing schools. The two best public high schools in the state of Illinois (and the country for that matter), are Northside and Walter Payton. Whitney Young, Jones and Lane Tech are also among some of the top schools in that state academically. Elementary schools there is Lincoln Park and Bell, and among others that can be considered some of the best in the state and the country.

As a whole yes, the CPS needs some work, but I am you cannot ignore some of the amazing public schools that are available.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by OhAcid

Unless you're going to be attending the university, (which the OP is not)

Or working in Wisconsin state government.

[cj31young]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

How does one exactly come up with Chicago or Madison? It is kinda difficult to come up anything more opposite than Chicago and Madison.

My choices are madison or chicago! Large or small? Based on my lifestlye and goals. Understand?