Need help describing Chicago, for a story (Schaumburg, Wheaton: middle school, college)

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by rca215

And who learns about commas in college?

Any of the hundreds of thousands of people who get English, Journalism or Education degrees every year. And given how few people understand not only the correct use of commas but also the why (the specific rules behind our choices), perhaps more might benefit from a such a curriculum.

[rca215]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Any of the hundreds of thousands of people who get English, Journalism or Education degrees every year. And given how few people understand not only the correct use of commas but also the why (the specific rules behind our choices), perhaps more might benefit from a such a curriculum.

I would hope that any student in a decent English, Journalism or Education college program would have learned the rules of basic comma usage in high school (of even maybe middle school).

[CoolSocks]

Originally Posted by aragx6

^Dude, what is up with the douchiness? If anything you sound jealous that you're not a published writer!

There are a ton of writing forums out there where people do exactly this.

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound so douchey. The OP just came across very entitled and I thought that was interesting considering the clip.

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by silverojo

I'm writing a story, a brief part of which takes place in Chicago. The problem? I've never been there! Normally, I don't write about anything I haven't experienced myself. However, this is an exception, because (due to the plot) this part of the story it has to take place in a huge Midwestern city. Chicago is the only one large enough to qualify.

In the scene I'm writing Cole takes his fiancee Jessi to meet his parents, who live in the Chicago area. I'm mainly looking for descriptions of what it looks/feels like to go from O'Hare, through the city, to the parents' house.

To clarify what I'm looking for, I'll show you a few passages of what I've written about Phoenix. (This is the part where the couple goes to Jessi's parents' place.) The Arizonans I know who have read this say it definitely gives a feel for the area. This is precisely what I want to achieve with the Chicago scene:



One other question:
I'm trying to determine exactly where Cole's parents might live. They are middle-class, but I don't know if they would live in the city itself, or in Chicagoland. The father is the type of guy who's frustrated that he didn't become very successful (he's doing okay, just not as well as he would have liked), so he pushes his sons too hard to succeed. He couldn't afford to live in a real good area (like, say, Scottsdale in Arizona--it would be more like north Phoenix, where it's kind of a cut-rate version of Scottsdale). The irony is that Cole's parents are a little overpretentious and snobbish toward Jessi, even though she's from a far more upscale place (Scottsdale). So, where in the Chicago area might Cole's parents live, that wouldn't be tacky, yet not upscale?

Any help would be appreciated. And I hope you don't mind, if I need to ask follow-up questions.

Thanks!

One question-- do you actually even need to be explicit about where the parents live in Chicago? I mean, it is a fictional story, correct? I know many novelists would just make up a name of a suburb. There are so, so many suburbs of all different kinds in Chicagoland, encompassing all races/classes/political attitudes that I think any suburb you describe would have a real-life counterpart in Chicagoland. Can't you just say the parents are from Suburb [insert fictional name] x miles outside of Chicago? (Of course with more artistic detail ). Though re-reading your post makes me think you would prefer to use actual names..

Either way, if you want to pick an actual suburb or neighborhood, make sure you're realistic. If the parents think that Scottsdale is "a far more upscale place", they probably aren't going to be from the North Shore or most of DuPage county I could think of more south/southwest suburbs as more appropriate based on your description.

[chirack]

Ok there are many ways to play this and before someone gets upset these are huge generalizations that make Archie Bunker look like a flaming liberal. In general the price of housing is greatest in the north/northwest burbs, cheaper in the west and cheapest in the south burbs. Even then that generalization ignores that you get a larger house for your money in the west or south burbs even if you lose the prestige.

The south burbs are more socially conservative(i.e. Pro-union but not say pro gay marriage ect). They are Democratic but the south burbs are areas where more black/white contact happens and there is more white flight there. None of the south burbs have the catch of the North shore or Barrington Hills area (they are nice areas to live in, safe, just not ultra rich or old money). This is an area that a blue collar guy might live. There are fewer office parks in the south burbs but more factories. If going to the south burbs (and much of Chicago itself) Midway would be preferred. The south burbs are the cheapest in terms of home prices but they do have some luxury areas. Many of these areas are more tense for fear that the area may change over racially (I.e. there goes the schools ect…)but blacks and whites interact daily and share the same shopping areas, so there is mixing going on just an uneasy sort of mixing(i.e. Is the burb going to stay peacefully mixed like Oak Park and Evanston or will the burb be the next Maywood or Harvey(mostly black burbs that were crippled by white flight and are as bad as any ghetto in Chicago). The south burbs are the ones who are experiencing the rust belt the worst but there is still a fair amount of industry present. Homewood and Floshmoor as well as Olympia Feilds are the south burb's high end area but again none of them have the cacth of the north shore or Barrington Hills but are nice places to live. Also due to distance no one who would want to live in thoose areas would live here. You would need a reason other than money. South Holland was once socialy conservative but is now 50/50 white/black and probably not as conservative as it once was.

The Northwest are Republican but are more fiscally conservative than anything else. Less white flight has happened but only due to the fact that other than Hispanics, Blacks traditionally tend to go to the south burbs and the white flight that has happened here revolves around the Hispanics. They are more “Don’t raise my taxes and don’t build anything we don’t need” and slightly anti-union (only in the sense that it costs more). They don’t have any strong prejudices and can be somewhat more tolerant socially than the south burbs (Here you might find a gay libertarian) and here John McCain signs were more common than elsewhere.

Coming out of O’Hare or even Milwaukee in some cases is what would likely happen for the northwest burbs esp. the far ones. A small airport called Palwaukee in Wheeling serves this area too (i.e. very small airplanes like personal ones or charted ones). Barrington is a far Northwest burb. DesPlaines, Park Ridge, Lincolnwood. Parts of the town of Hampshire are dealing with the current housing bust due to overbuilding. Sears has it’s headquarters in Hoffman Estates a northwest burb near Barrington(moved from downtown Chicago). Wheeling is an area that could be described as nice, but blue collar. Once mostly white (say 20-30 years ago) has turned or is turning strongly Hispanic.

The northwest and west burbs have more office parks but Downtown Chicago (a.k.a. The Loop) is still the more “prestigious place to work”. (i.e. No high powered lawyer puts his office out in any burb and any company that locates it headquarters in the burbs over the loop could be doing so for lots of great reasons, but prestige is not one of them).

He could be say a lawyer or accountant who works at some blue collar shop out there or some small satellite office of a large firm located downtown.

The west burbs are kind of a mix. They are Democratic and more liberal than the south burbs and less blue collar but no extreme high end old money like North Shore or Barrington Hills. Oakpark is a near west burb but unlikely to be a home for your chareters since it is liberal.

Wheaton however is strongly socially conservative. It is home to Wheaton College a Christian school that banned dancing until last decade! It is somewhat higher end for the west burbs. Racially they are more diverse than the northwest burbs and other than Maywood (in the past) less prone to white flight than the south ones. Naperville is nearby and could be the poster child for suburbia as is Lombard. BP used to have a major facility this way(not sure if it is still there as they are increasing their preseance at their downtown office). Wheaton and Naperville could be considered far(or not near west burbs).

The north shore is home to Evantson and starts with it but there are more burbs to north all the way to North Chicago which is where the affluent burbs end. Evanston is a liberal college town. Great Lakes Naval training center is near North Chicago IL.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by rca215

I would hope that any student in a decent English, Journalism or Education college program would have learned the rules of basic comma usage in high school (of even maybe middle school).

I went to one of them new-fangled '90s "you're all super special snowflakes" schools where I literally had a teacher tell me to put in a comma "wherever it sounds like there should be one." Very few students carry a fully knowledge of both the parts of speech and parts of a sentence into college, and without a complete understanding of the structure of a sentence, it's impossible to understand how to correctly use commas. Therefore, I would argue there's no such thing as "basic comma usage" -- you either understand the complex grammatical concepts behind commas or you're just "guessing."

[tribecavsbrowns]

And yet, one's writing can often be improved by small deviations from the "complex grammatical concepts behind commas." You're ultimately writing for the reader, not the grammar gods.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

And yet, one's writing can often be improved by small deviations from the "complex grammatical concepts behind commas." You're ultimately writing for the reader, not the grammar gods.

That's not the point I was trying to make at all. I work in corporate marketing and I have to make style-guide-based adjustments to "perfect" grammer all the time -- including using semi-colons as "heavy commas" which makes me crazy inside. It's about consistency more than anything else. However, the poster I was responding to was trying to claim that all Americans with a high school education know how to use commas, and that fact is inherently off base. The vast majority of folks do not.

[SmartGXL]

I would say that the parents live in probably Lombard, Schaumburg, Wheaton, or Hoffman Estates...and maybe even Glendale Heights, all of which are out in the Western or Northwestern suburbs. But even then, the demographics and overall "culture" of the Chicagoland area, is somewhat different than the rest of the Midwest. I would say that the boyfriend in the story probably comes from Fort Wayne, or somewhere in Michigan or Ohio. I honestly cannot picture someone named Cole, who comes from the burbs. And if he did, he is probably a heavier-set guy with a beard, is a homebody and has a very dull passive-aggressive personality. That has always been my stereotype for the typical male who lives in, or grew up in, the Chicago suburbs.

[eevee]

Originally Posted by CoolSocks

If you have also already been a published novelist, you would know that it would be best to visit Chicago and conduct your own research. Successful novelists don't go on message boards to get the premise for a significant chunk of their novel. That would be considered risky and sloppy.

actually, in the age of the internet, now more than ever authors don't need to go to the place they're writing about, esp. if they're writing fiction. they can glean info from online maps, forums, even interview current residents without leaving their living room. no need for the OP to waste money to come out for such an easy assignment as writing about the commute from O'Hare

and people, enough w/ the grammar nazism. I doubt the OP is going to copy and paste that exact chunk into his/her manuscript and send it off. I'm sure this is a 1st or 2nd draft (lots of writers just worry about the content in the first few rafts and deal w/ the mechanics such as proper grammar, in later drafts)