Midwestern High Speed Rail Network - Chicago thoughts? (Westchester, Countryside: maintenance, live)

[DarkWolf]

http://www.midwesthsr.org/sites/defa...cal_Report.pdf

I do believe we will see a Chicago HSR network by 2050 connecting to Cleveland , St. Louis and Twins Cities. The rest of the Midwestern Cities will get at least 125mph service. The Flat landscape of Midwest makes Constructing the HSR cheaper and faster to build as opposed to the Northeast or Cali. So what do Windy city residents think about the future HSR system? You won't see anything big intill the 2020s...aside from 110mph corridors....

[55degrees]

sounds like it would make for easier "local" vacations...but not sure how many people would use it regularly.

[reppin_the_847]

Well I am sort of a rail buff to begin with so perhaps I am not representative of the typical person in the Chicago area. I have to travel on train lines such as the Wolverine & Blue Water (to Michigan) fairly frequently for both personal & business related reasons. The line has made tremendous progress by making the 100 mile or so stretch between Porter (Indiana) & Kalamazoo (Michigan) a 110 MPH zone. You can feel the speed when traversing this stretch. That being said, the rest of the line continues to be mediocre at best and nightmarish at worst. The Northfolk Southern imposed freight delays east of Kalamazoo (into Ann Arbor and sometimes Dearborn) are unacceptable.

I believe that this line gets a very steady amount of business especially on weekends. Simply getting the train to run reliably at 110 MPH without delays would be huge progress from what passengers have had to deal with up until now (and including the present time).

I'm presuming that you are from the East Coast (I have seen your posts here & there). How do you like the rail service in the Northeast Corridor? Seems like you guys are head & shoulders ahead of the rest of the USA, but still behind compared to our international competitors when it comes to rail. I've also noticed that the cost to ride the rails out East is astronomical compared to the Midwest lines usually. I've also been on the NJ Transit trains out there and they are INSANELY crowded unlike almost any train here except maybe the most packed CTA Red Line train. I think the Metro North trains coming in from Westchester County into NYC are quite nice. LIRR's rolling stock seems similar, but pretty crowded.

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

http://www.midwesthsr.org/sites/defa...cal_Report.pdf

I do believe we will see a Chicago HSR network by 2050 connecting to Cleveland , St. Louis and Twins Cities. The rest of the Midwestern Cities will get at least 125mph service. The Flat landscape of Midwest makes Constructing the HSR cheaper and faster to build as opposed to the Northeast or Cali. So what do Windy city residents think about the future HSR system? You won't see anything big intill the 2020s...aside from 110mph corridors....

[williepotatoes]

Maybe I'm being a dark cloud, but the thought of trains wheeling thru the cities and countryside at 125 mph really worries me. Derailment and collision at those speeds would be catastophic. I am much more at ease with the concept of bullet trains. Being slaved to a single rail and elevated above ground to avoid possible ground level obstuctions, would calm most of my fears.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

Maybe I'm being a dark cloud, but the thought of trains wheeling thru the cities and countryside at 125 mph really worries me. Derailment and collision at those speeds would be catastophic. I am much more at ease with the concept of bullet trains. Being slaved to a single rail and elevated above ground to avoid possible ground level obstuctions, would calm most of my fears.

Most "bullet trains" are not "slaved" to a single rail.

The term "bullet train" typically and (I believe) originally refers to the Japanese Shinkansen trains which originated in 1964, but these days also often refers to similar operations in other countries.

Shinkansen are electric trains. This is an important aspect of any "bullet train" operation because it allows for lighter locomotives which, in turn, allows for better acceleration and stopping performance.

Shinkansen and France's TGV and the other TGV-like trains in Europe run on tracks that are simply a high-quality version of the double-steel rail tracks that every train in America runs on . For them to support high speed, they require better maintenance, and generally things like banked tracks in curves, a more stable foundation which often includes concrete ties, and rails that are welded together into a minimum of 1-mile-long segments to reduce the "clacky-clack" and improve smoothness at high speeds. Usually the cars are also capable of tilting to reduce the effect of high-speed curves on the passenger comfort.

When built to Japanese or European spec, they are quite safe. In more dense parts of the route, they will either put run in a completely isolated trench if they need to maintain speed, or they will simply slow down.

There are only two kinds of trains that might be considered single-rail.

The first are monorails. While there have been testing of high-speed monorails I'm not aware of any in current service at high speeds.

The other is maglev, or trains that typically straddle something that's more like a continuous platform than it is a rail. This is extremely expensive, prone to operational issues, controversial with people who live near tracks due to the magnetism and, while theoretically capable of extreme speeds, not necessarily that much faster than the best "normal" electric bullet trains unless you run them in an vacuum tube which, of course, dramatically further increases their already higher-than-average expense.

Currently there is only one commercially operational high-speed maglev train - the Shanghai one from Pudong Airport to the city. There are a couple other low-speed systems. Japan is planning a high-speed route linking Tokyo and Osaka, but if it actually happens, it won't open until 2025 (partially) and 2045 (fully), and it will have cost over US$108 billion.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

Maybe I'm being a dark cloud, but the thought of trains wheeling thru the cities and countryside at 125 mph really worries me. Derailment and collision at those speeds would be catastophic. I am much more at ease with the concept of bullet trains. Being slaved to a single rail and elevated above ground to avoid possible ground level obstuctions, would calm most of my fears.

They only use Single tracks at Railway interchanges....and on rerouting lines. The OHARE spur might be single tracked...but it will be grade separated. The Countryside lines would hit 220mph....cities would be limited to 125mph.... Derailments and Collisions on HSR networks are rare only a few have happened since 1964.

[DarkWolf]

These are the trains the Midwestern Network would use...and look like...

Rural areas


[TGV] In cow we trust ! - YouTube

Suburban / Urban Areas...


Eurostar trains at Stratford Int'l - YouTube

Tunnel


tunelowa RZE

[williepotatoes]

Thank you, but I will take one maglev please, because the chance of derailment is pretty remote. Since these rail systems will live or die on public funding, they will also (and already do) have powerful legislative enemies. The first time one of them tanks and produces a couple hundred bodybags will be the end of them.

Americans are not ready to become train people again. At least not as long as they have cars to drive. Making these systems financially sustainable is a long way off. If your going to make a move, then make a bold one and safe one. A futuristic high speed adventure just might click with the younger generation and build a market for their services.

Make no small plans.

[williepotatoes]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Derailments and Collisions on HSR networks are rare only a few have happened since 1964.

But please remember that this is America, not the restained, orderly and timid civilizations that occupy Europe and much of Asia. We have more vehicles, more drunks, and more reckless, uncivil behavior than most of the HSR nations. We have people who commit suicide by taking their familes and co-workers with them. Heck, we have to drug test most of our transportation workers. Not to mention our inexperience in the ways of HSR rail systems.

Don't sell America short here, we are always capable of a monumental epic fail. Just look at Justin Bieber.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

But please remember that this is America, not the restained, orderly and timid civilizations that occupy Europe and much of Asia. We have more vehicles, more drunks, and more reckless, uncivil behavior than most of the HSR nations. We have people who commit suicide by taking their familes and co-workers with them. Heck, we have to drug test most of our transportation workers. Not to mention our inexperience in the ways of HSR rail systems.

Don't sell America short here, we are always capable of a monumental epic fail. Just look at Justin Bieber.

Huh..... HSR is grade separated....and protected with a High Fench and concrete barriers in Suburban / Urban areas....so its unlikely that a car would get onto the tracks. There are also sensors and cameras every mile monitoring the tracks for debris or animals. Europe has more drunks then we do....and Japan has the world's highest suicide rate...so I don't see why we can't build HSR. We have a decent amount HSR experience , The Midwest used to have a semi HSR network with trains running out of Chicago at 125mph. Here in the Northeast Trains run between 100-160mph carrying over 3 Million daily without incident. Derailments are very rare and occur at low speeds usually in the Yard.... They drug test overseas and have stress tests along with that....we do less then they do in Europe or Japan. JB is Canadain..