Should Chicago utilize the "stop and frisk" law? (Lincoln: crime, neighborhood)

[lenniel]

(no, this doesn't have anything to do with the Pride Parade)

I wasn't aware of this law in New York but it's made a huge difference in the gun murder rate in NYC. Since it's been implemented, gun murders/violence are down signficantly in NYC. Statistics have proven that.

"The situation in which a police officer who is suspicious of an individual detains the person and runs his hands lightly over the suspect's outer garments to determine if the person is carrying a concealed weapon."

Now, obviously this law causes controversy because it essentially gives cops the ability to profile and a vast majority of those getting S&F are black or hispanic., BUT....statistics show (and I don't think anyone would argue against it) that young black and hispanic males are also the ones perpetrating most of the gun violence.

I think it's a great idea and would work in Chicago.

What say you?

[urza216]

Cops stopping random people and frisking them for no particular reason.. Yeah, racial profiling is the only thing possibly wrong with that.

How about the 4th Amendment?

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by urza216

Cops stopping random people and frisking them for no particular reason.. Yeah, racial profiling is the only thing possibly wrong with that.

So do you agree or disagree that most of the gun violence is perpetrated by a particular race?
Let's quit trying to be so PC and say it is what it is.

I agree with you though that it's unlikely a lot of white, 20-somethings in Lincoln Park are going to get S&F but there's also not a whole lot of white 20-somethings in LP shooting people.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by lenniel

So do you agree or disagree that most of the gun violence is perpetrated by a particular race?
Let's quit trying to be so PC and say it is what it is.

I agree with you though that it's unlikely a lot of white, 20-somethings in Lincoln Park are going to get S&F but there's also not a whole lot of white 20-somethings in LP shooting people.

I can't disagree with anything you wrote here.

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

Chicago cops do stop and frisk as do many suburban cops.

In New York City there has been an increase in pot possesion cases of under 3 grams.

In fact, under Bloomberg there have been more misdemeanor pot arrests than there were with the previous 3 mayors combined (and that includes Rudy Guliani). Over 90% of those arrested are black and hispanic. Pretty much all from stop and frisk. There was a documentary called "Weed Wars" that talked about this. New Yorkers spend more tax dollars prosecuting stoners than they do people with guns as a result.

The Terry case was actually when a cop stop and frisked some guys who were casing out bank for a robbery. And it was pretty obvious. The officer had a reasonable and articulable belief that a crime was happening. But cops try to expand this to the point of violating civil rights.

As far as I am concerned:

A society that sacrafices a little liberty (of blacks/latinos/muslims ) to gain a little security (for whites) deserves neither and will lose both.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

Chicago cops do stop and frisk as do many suburban cops.

In New York City there has been an increase in pot possesion cases of under 3 grams.

In fact, under Bloomberg there have been more misdemeanor pot arrests than there were with the previous 3 mayors combined (and that includes Rudy Guliani). Over 90% of those arrested are black and hispanic. Pretty much all from stop and frisk. There was a documentary called "Weed Wars" that talked about this. New Yorkers spend more tax dollars prosecuting stoners than they do people with guns as a result.

The Terry case was actually when a cop stop and frisked some guys who were casing out bank for a robbery. And it was pretty obvious. The officer had a reasonable and articulable belief that a crime was happening. But cops try to expand this to the point of violating civil rights.

As far as I am concerned:

A society that sacrafices a little liberty (of blacks/latinos/muslims ) to gain a little security (for whites) deserves neither and will lose both.

I'm not talking about picking dime bags off some Occupy stoner, I'm talking about taking guns from gangbangers. The 'legalize pot' discussion is a whole other topic.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

As far as I am concerned:

A society that sacrafices a little liberty (of blacks/latinos/muslims ) to gain a little security (for whites) deserves neither and will lose both.

Meh, most of the gun violence in Chicago is black on black or latino on latino, those lines generally aren't crossed when it comes to actual murders. If we are talking about guns being used committing crimes, maybe then you can say it is for the protection of whites.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by lenniel

So do you agree or disagree that most of the gun violence is perpetrated by a particular race?
Let's quit trying to be so PC and say it is what it is.

I agree with you though that it's unlikely a lot of white, 20-somethings in Lincoln Park are going to get S&F but there's also not a whole lot of white 20-somethings in LP shooting people.

People on this forum always accuse me of making everything about race. But this is not about race. This is about civil liberties. Cops will unjustly put their hands on white guy's asses too. We have places to be and don't have time for cops to be stopping us and frisking us because the cop didn't like the way we look or dress or twitched our head or body in a suspicious manner.

Don't be naive. Just because you feel white and entitled doesn't mean white guys won't be frisked too. Cops are suspicious of anything out of what they consider the ordinary. You can tell them all about your white entitlement while they continue to search you.

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

Originally Posted by urza216

People on this forum always accuse me of making everything about race. But this is not about race. This is about civil liberties. Cops will unjustly put their hands on white guy's asses too. We have places to be and don't have time for cops to be stopping us and frisking us because the cop didn't like the way we look or dress or twitched our head or body in a suspicious manner.

Don't be naive. Just because you feel white and entitled doesn't mean white guys won't be frisked too. Cops are suspicious of anything out of what they consider the ordinary. You can tell them all about your white entitlement while they continue to search you.

Exactly, as a white person I can not go into a black neighborhood with out a punk cop trying to go Dick Tracy on me. They will treat you like a heroin addict just for walking around and pull everything out of your pockets. It never occurs to them that I am walking to a co-workers house, I must be up to no good!

It's so funny that in an era where our own government sells guns to drug cartels US government openly admits arming Mexican drug gangs with 30,000 firearms - but why?, that we blame the small fries. How about going after the people who knowingly put them in the black market. And I got news for you, it ain't Pookie the corner boy with 5 dollars and a crack rock in his pocket..

[urza216]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

Exactly, as a white person I can not go into a black neighborhood with out a punk cop trying to go Dick Tracy on me. They will treat you like a heroin addict just for walking around and pull everything out of your pockets. It never occurs to them that I am walking to a co-workers house, I must be up to no good!

It's so funny that in an era where our own government sells guns to drug cartels US government openly admits arming Mexican drug gangs with 30,000 firearms - but why?, that we blame the small fries. How about going after the people who knowingly put them in the black market. And I got news for you, it ain't Pookie the corner boy with 5 dollars and a crack rock in his pocket..

That happens when I visit an old friend I met in high school too. And my co-worker too (I got him the job here..)