De Facto Segregation in Chicago

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by TBideon

Doesn't sound like you're disagreeing with the post: he says poverty is a choice for some, and you say it's not always a choice (implying that sometimes it IS a choice).

By and large - and yes, I'm sure with some limited exception - any girl who has a kid during high school, and certainly multiple kids, IS making a choice to stay impoverished and live off government welfare. I don't understand how you can argue against that.

Yeah. Choosing a life of poverty is one thing, but condemning your dependents to that is another story altogether. Listening to some people you'd think teen pregnancies were all Acts of God instead of just two kids who weren't thinking things through and using protection.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Poverty is not always a choice! Your looking into the situation with black and white glasses when there is multiple shades of gray.

I've had the pleasure of meeting all kinds of people through the type of work I do. There are many wealthy people who scam the system to get a dollar in their pocket. There are others who are classified as the working poor who moral foundation wouldn't allow them to scam anyone. There are many who work hard on jobs they love that don't pay a lot of money. Many work hard to make others rich.

It is about choices but never assume that anyone particular demographic is lazy or not deserving of something because your narrow experiences in life have not lead you to walk in their shoes. Some can say you choose to be ignorant on these issues.

Nope, I didn't say a certain group of people are guilty of making bad choices or not deserving. I said that poverty is a choice by someone who makes that choice because of what they chose to do (which leads me to "personal responsibility" which is important.)

You can choose to believe I am ignorant. I respectfully disagree with that adjective.

It is about choices - because as an adult we have some control over what happens. If not, then we need to find out why something happened, and if possible, if the outcome is not what we want, find a way to change it if we could. ok if a person is in jail, and THEN realizes they were stoopid, then they can't just walk out and say ooops sorry see you later. However, if I am in control of my life as far as like sleeping late AGAIN or, taking the time to look for a job, then I have a better chance of finding a job if i go out there and look rather than stay home defeated.

So i respectfully disagree with you, and it is not because I am ignorant. I do believe poverty IS a choice by those who do nothing to better themselves, if they have the power/choice to change it. and sometimes it is a simple thing. Just like you said in another post to me, "no one keeps me down" so good for you - and i mean that sincerely - thankfully you did not live in the Jim Crow law era (which did keep a lot of people down that WERE trying to just live a normal life.

A person who is born into a family that happens to live in a bad neighborhood, like somewhere in Detroit for example, in the ghetto, and the kid realizes hey life here is not great,, then that person might have some limited resources, so in a way, he has a limit on him, however, if he can find a way to get outta that situation, he will be a stronger person for trying. Yes he is not as mobile as like some rich kid whose daddy pays their way, but in the end, the rich kid might end up spoiled and then commit suicide (like the rock stars who had everything they could want, but died young because they were effed up, meanwhile the kid from the ghetto might go farther because he knows anything is better than what he was born into. Like Michael Jackson born in Gary, IN, a place that sucks and looks like a war zone (I've been there to see that factoid); but he got out of that area, unfortunately he died too soon, because his life though successful in one way, materially, yet he was not successful with other things. You may infact be more successful than Michael Jackson based on you are a normal guy who has probably lived longer than Michael. and you didn't have to have multiple plastic surgeries to make yourself feel normal.

[mjtinmemphis]

Chicagomeo,

First I need to make clear that the term ignorant wasn't used to put you down as a person. I'm ignorant on somethings because my life experience has not taken me to some places. I don't believe you know what your writing about in this situation.

My personal situation is better than most due to the people I have in my life and the right opportunities have presented themselves at the right time. I also have a rock solid support structure as well. That's why I said what I said about no one bringing me down. At the same time I know that not everyone has the same life.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

meanwhile the kid from the ghetto might go farther because he knows anything is better than what he was born into. Like Michael Jackson born in Gary, IN, a place that sucks and looks like a war zone (I've been there to see that factoid)....

Jackson's father had a very good job in the mills and made good dough, he had a solid blue collar job. And Gary in the late 50s and 60s when the mills were thriving and there was good paying work for all was not like Gary today.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Chicagomeo,

First I need to make clear that the term ignorant wasn't used to put you down as a person. I'm ignorant on somethings because my life experience has not taken me to some places. I don't believe you know what your writing about in this situation.

My personal situation is better than most due to the people I have in my life and the right opportunities have presented themselves at the right time. I also have a rock solid support structure as well. That's why I said what I said about no one bringing me down. At the same time I know that not everyone has the same life.

Ok I think I get you You mean "ignorant" not as a perjorative term, but as "one who just has not had knowledge in that area".

what you said about yourself - i wish more people would be more like that.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Jackson's father had a very good job in the mills and made good dough, he had a solid blue collar job. And Gary in the late 50s and 60s when the mills were thriving and there was good paying work for all was not like Gary today.

ok but now, its more run down unfortunately. I got to see Gary in approx 1987... looked like it could have been a nice place if it had been kept up. from watching Jeffrey Behr's videos about the "chicago's south side" on channel 11, he describes Gary as trying to improve itself, with the metro center being built. but unfortunately its not going too well quickly enough if you travel thru the neighborhoods about maybe 5 miles from downtown, its kinda ghetto (and i mean ghetto by run down/depressed buildings and has a look of poverty running thru it.)