Should CPS require much more funding that Naperville Schools?

[cubssoxfan]

I do agree that ESL does present some challenges, but the FACT is that large numbers of kids whose parents left their native lands highly value education. Whether these first generation immigrants are from old world countries that were part of the former Soviet Bloc, from sub-Saharan African, from Caribbean Islands, from obscure Soth American countries with oppressive regimes, from Asian countries with highly stratified cultures or basically any part of the world where you can't just walk across the border and still hear/see your native language/ culture as a growing excuse not to master the predominate language of this country the majority such immigrants are MORE driven than native born Americans...

And why are there a relatively large number of inner-city parents who DON"T push education? My Dad never cared for Jesse Jackson Sr's rhetoric but always admired and appreciated his speeches emphasizing getting an education to get ahead.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

And why are there a relatively large number of inner-city parents who DON"T push education?

It's the cycle of poverty. When parents are working several minimum wage jobs to get by, or in prison, or hooked on drugs as an escape from the misery, or raising several kids as a single parent, or simply don't understand education because they aren't educated themselves, "pushing education" isn't likely to happen.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

... the reasons are not going to be due any inherent problem with collective bargaining.

At the end of the day collective bargaining is about fairness, and a union provides protection against unjust workplace conditions.

CTU (and many unions) exists in the first place because historically workers doing the exact same job were treated totally differently, and were subject to the whims and personalities of the administrators.

Long long ago, in the days before the US Dept of Labor was tasked with things like workplace safety unions served a legitimate purpose for both public sector and private employees. Those days are long since past. Now the criminal collusion of public sector organized labor to perpetuate the political power of their supporters by directing union dues toward political campaigns overrides all other concerns.

Charter schoos will be bashed and denigrated by those who blindly support the aims of politcal party that stands in the way of sane reforms of public employee pensions, school reform and a competitive US economy.

There is absolutely no reason why an appropriate "grievance procedure" could not exist within the confines of school supervision that could exist without unions -- Illinos already has local schools boards, regional superintendents of schools and a state level Board of Education / State School Superintendent. A quasi judicial structure could EASILY see to that ALL teachers regardless of working in a charter school or any other kind of setting could have "their day in court" should they be subjected to any 'whims'. Sadly becuase such a system would not have any easy way to flush massive amounts of cash into the war chests of political leaders I don't imagine it will ever see the light of day in Illinois' poltical climate ..

[Suburban Mom of 2 Kids]

Ok, the getting shot part probably is restricted to isolated parts of the city, I agree (it was just the easiest example I could think of at the time ). So, maybe 5-10% of the kids in the school system face these challenges. You, rightfully so, highlight another 40%-ish of students facing motivational achievement challenges, for one reason or another. Somebody else pointed out abuse situations where chiildren are in situations that put them in harm's way physically, emotionally or what have you. There are probably a handful more of adverse social problems interfering with learning that could be listed.

If CPS spends MORE per student to simply educate their students, is it over-reaching to expect that CPS address all of these other issues as well? We are saying, though, the the definition of "the problem" (the reason inner city kids don't do as well as suburban, middle-high income suburban kids, despite spending more money on CPS kids) is because of all of these "other" issues - motivation, abuse, violence, gangs, etc.

Is it unreasonable to think that CPS only job is to educate children and leave the rest to "somebody" else? Who is that somebody and how does the grassroot effort start?

Originally Posted by chet everett

The threads that encourage folks to realize that even the absolute WORST parts of Chicago are still predominately inhabited not by some crazed desperado packs of drug lords, but people with some hard luck who struggle to stay employed and pay their bills are actually pretty accurate. By themselves the stats of poverty don't explain underperformance. The roots of not just "under performance" but the negative motivation that CPS fosters in so many are well known to those experinced in the low performing schools.

Beleive me the image of school kids dodging bullets on their way to school is not accurate. Many of these kids have the same XBox / DS as kids in Naperville. Odds are pretty good that they watch as much junk TV too. The culture of low acheivement schools is such that hard work is rarely expected of anyone -- not the principals, not the teachers, not the parents and certainly not the children. The rare instances where a talented teacher with high standards IS put into the mix often does result in a BIG backlash from the STUDENTS that have grown accustomed to low effort / do nothing teachers. Occaisionally the efforts of those teachers is openly thwarted by PARENTS that prefer to make excuses than see to it that high expectations are met. As happens in MANY "work to union rules" employment situations the other teachers resent / work against the efforts of those who want to "rise above" and similarly a surprising number of harrowed / beat down principals prefer to not have to deal with those "boat rockers" that have high standards.

I do agree that ESL does present some challenges, but the FACT is that large numbers of kids whose parents left their native lands highly value education. Whether these first generation immigrants are from old world countries that were part of the former Soviet Bloc, from sub-Saharan African, from Caribbean Islands, from obscure Soth American countries with oppressive regimes, from Asian countries with highly stratified cultures or basically any part of the world where you can't just walk across the border and still hear/see your native language/ culture as a growing excuse not to master the predominate language of this country the majority such immigrants are MORE driven than native born Americans...


The culture of low expectations, hand-outs, special set asides and some sort of magical "hit it big as a celebrity" delusion is something that tamps down not just acheivement in inner city urban schools but also rural districts in this state and others -- "reality TV" that showcases morons who "live large"' as tank top wearing kings of storage locker auctions, obese moms of baby beauty pagent competitors, pop/country music stars from backwater towns better known for cooking up crystal meth or moonshine and dozens of "fantasies" feed the tendency of the under achievers to belive they can "win the lottery" and end up on easy street.

The fact is, in this country, there is a correlation between folks who have high incomes and schools that perform well. For most of the region that means to find a good public school you've got to figure out a way to live around folks that pay a lot to buy a house. The selective enrollment schools of CPS and the handful of well performing local elementary schools in CPS leverage much of that same sort of "find a good spot" mindset. Interestingly the less well known system of charter schools MAY also be able to tap into some of the same "seek out the good ones" effort BUT because charters threaten the revenue streams that organized labor funnels back to politicians they are unlikely to expand. The kids that don't have access to those things are all but doomed to permanent under class status...

[Atlanta_BD]

Originally Posted by hindukid

If we spend more per student then Naperville, then why do we have bigger classes?

Maybe because the population of Chicago is 2.7 million and the population of Naperville is 141,857?

[Atlanta_BD]

Given that Chicago proper has a population of nearly 3 million with a great number of its residents being impoverished and Naperville is an affluent suburb with a population of less then 200,000 with the majority of its residents being well-to-do, comparing the two is comparing apples to organges--they are both fruit but not the same.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Suburban Mom of 2 Kids

Is it unreasonable to think that CPS only job is to educate children and leave the rest to "somebody" else? Who is that somebody and how does the grassroot effort start?

That somebody would be every Illinois resident, according to our own state constitution. I shake my head in wonder at how this state operates 24/7 in violation of its own "operator's manual"!

Illinois Constitution - Article X

SECTION 1. GOAL - FREE SCHOOLS A fundamental goal of the People of the State is the educational development of all persons to the limits of their capacities. The State shall provide for an efficient system of high quality public educational institutions and services. Education in public schools through the secondary level shall be free. There may be such other free education as the General Assembly provides by law. The State has the primary responsibility for financing the system of public education. (Source: Illinois Constitution.) SECTION 2. STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION - CHIEF STATE EDUCATIONAL OFFICER (a) There is created a State Board of Education to be elected or selected on a regional basis. The number of members, their qualifications, terms of office and manner of election or selection shall be provided by law. The Board, except as limited by law, may establish goals, determine policies, provide for planning and evaluating education programs and recommend financing. The Board shall have such other duties and powers as provided by law. (b) The State Board of Education shall appoint a chief state educational officer. (Source: Illinois Constitution.) SECTION 3. PUBLIC FUNDS FOR SECTARIAN PURPOSES FORBIDDEN Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university, or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other personal property ever be made by the State, or any such public corporation, to any church, or for any sectarian purpose. (Source: Illinois Constitution.)