Should CPS require much more funding that Naperville Schools? (Chicago: low income, appointed)

[hindukid]

I was curious as to how much we were spending on schools. CPS spending per student is about $10,500. Naperville's is about $9900.

Even though we spend slightly more than Naperville I don't really think we have any real chance of competing with them. But I do wonder why we have so many reports of 40 student classrooms, students sharing textbooks, no desks and no supplies. Why doesn't Naperville have these problems if they are spending less than we are.

I can really think of only two reasons:

1. We are way less efficient than Naperville and far more money is getting wasted.
2. We are paying our teachers so much more and therefore there is a lot less money left over for the other stuff.

I guess the question then is do we just need to accept the fact that it will cost way more to fund CPS than it will Naperville or is there something that can be done. Maybe the students at CPS are so bad that the only way the city will attract any teachers is to pay them far more than the suburbs. Or maybe teachers will come if they make what they do in the burbs. I wonder if we paid teachers less but then used the extra money on proper supplies if the teachers might actually be happier. Since suburban teachers are not striking it would seem that they must be happier even though they are paid less.

It just seems to me that one thing not being mentioned in the news which is relevant is that CPS actually spends a little more than a very well respected suburban district. It is not that the city is spending no money on its schools.

[chet everett]

The strike from neither the CTU perspective or that of Rahm Emmanuel and Chicago Democratic Machine is not primarily about "salary" or even direct costs. It is largely about decisions regarding the employment of teachers. CTU wants the status quo which gives safe harbor to all union members. Rahm prefers to have some ability to dictate how outcomes should result in both salary increases and on going employment.

In the suburbs the tax payers / parents / voters generally have a much greater level of input to those things through direct election of their local Board of Education. The neighbors that they elect to those boards have a direct responsibility to be responsive in prudently using the tax dollars and agreeing to negotiated terms that ensure a high quality / fairly paid teaching staff.

In Chicago an extreme amount of power lies with the Mayor. This is consistent with "Chicago Machine Poltics" that gives great authority to a limited number of people. Just as Daley bull dozed Meigs Field in the middle of the night so to does Rahm want to have the ability to reward / punish those that do not toe the line that he draws.

While I do not believe either the CTU or Rahm and his appointed board have the best interests of students in mind I do think it is important to understand why the current situation exists AND realize that no matter what the "budgetary" outcome of the current strike CPS will never be as accountable to citizens as suburban schools. Without that accountability the root causes for the differences in funding and outcome will not change.

[Golden Camel]

Don't forget that the suburban school districts do not pay pension and retirement benefit costs. But pension/retirement comes out of the CPS budget.

Suburban school boards can negotiate any retirement benefits they like with their teachers and stick the state with the cost. Chicago has to fund its own benefits. Making suburban school districts contribute to the cost of their teachers' pensions was one of the proposals that got shot down in Springfield.

And to add insult to injury, City of Chicago taxpayers have to pay taxes to fund the state pension system which pays for downstate/suburban school pensions.

[chet everett]

The Illinois constitution was re-drafted in the early 1970s. The principal author of it was Dawn Clark Netsch. She is a democrat from Chicago. The decision to fund CTU pension plan differently than downstate pensions was designed at the behest of Chicago politicians and labor leaders.

The funding for pensions systems other than CTU is the state income tax. The greatest burdened income tax payers are high income tax payers in the counties surrounding Chicago.

Many suburban school districts are staffed by teachers that understand the dire financial status that Ilinois is in becuase of years of one party dominance and have negotiated contracts that reflect the austerity that even wealthy areas are facing.

Until Illinois adopts a system that limits public labor unions to narrower terms of negotiation it is unlikely that changes will be accepted.


The low performance and wasteful spending of CPS would not be possible without MASSIVE transfers of State income tax revenue into the CPS coffers. The insult and abuse that this causes to state income payers is far more wanton than any "transfer" of pension burden into the city.

Originally Posted by Golden Camel

Don't forget that the suburban school districts do not pay pension and retirement benefit costs. But pension/retirement comes out of the CPS budget.

Suburban school boards can negotiate any retirement benefits they like with their teachers and stick the state with the cost. Chicago has to fund its own benefits. Making suburban school districts contribute to the cost of their teachers' pensions was one of the proposals that got shot down in Springfield.

And to add insult to injury, City of Chicago taxpayers have to pay taxes to fund the state pension system which pays for downstate/suburban school pensions.

[Vlajos]

What % of CPS students are low income?
What % of CPS students are ESL?

What % of Naperville students are low income?
What % of Naperville students are ESL?

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

What % of CPS students are low income?
What % of CPS students are ESL?

What % of Naperville students are low income?
What % of Naperville students are ESL?

To add to this.

What is the average age of school buildings in Chicago?
What is the average age of school buildings in Naperville?

[almost3am]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The Illinois constitution was re-drafted in the early 1970s. The principal author of it was Dawn Clark Netsch. She is a democrat from Chicago. The decision to fund CTU pension plan differently than downstate pensions was designed at the behest of Chicago politicians and labor leaders.

Interesting, i was wondering how this came about when I heard they were looking to change the way pensions are funded. I was thinking, "why would chicago be burdened with this?", but then I thought the city probably put the burden on themselves thinking they could do things better. I'll look into it further, I am curious about this.

[Savoir Faire]

I've seen multiple sources cite somewhere between $7,052 - $7,900 as spending per Chicago Public school student, don't know where you get your stats from

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Ma...ty-of-Chicago/

Chicago Public Schools By The Numbers | The Windy City YR

[cubssoxfan]

I also have heard from 2 sources, the Tribune and WBEZ that CPS also gets far more grant money and other similar funds from the State negating much if not all of the "free pension" contributions the rest of IL school districts get. In some comparisons CPS comes up a bit short and in others they come out ahead.
Demographics and the vast size of CPS is why their #'s don't' compare with Naperville. As someone pointed out in another thread, CPS has both the absolute best and some of the absolute worst schools in IL.

[chet everett]

Chicago District 299:
Instructional Expenditure Per Pupil
$7,946

Operational Expenditure Per Pupil
$13,078
Illinois Interactive Report Card, Chicago SD 299

Naperville District 203
Instructional Expenditure Per Pupil
$7,458

Operational Expenditure Per Pupil
$11,864
Illinois Interactive Report Card, Naperville SD 203

Originally Posted by Savoir Faire

I've seen multiple sources cite somewhere between $7,052 - $7,900 as spending per Chicago Public school student, don't know where you get your stats from

Best Elementary Schools: Chicago (Schools Ranked 1-250) - Chicago magazine - October 2010 - Chicago

Chicago Public Schools By The Numbers | The Windy City YR