LAKEVIEW CRIME WAVE CONTINUES: 7 robbed overnight by gun (Chicago, Lincoln: safer, moving)

[Irishtom29]

I'm with Lenny on this. I'm assuming those whom the NYC coppers stopped and frisked were giving off signals, by dress or demeanor, indicating they were gang members or criminally inclined. I think it's prudent to check out people who make such a display.

[urza216]

Cops can stop and frisk anyone they want in NYC. You know that cops are just people, right?

There is no rhyme or reason to this. You can make up anything you want about gang colors or skin colors or crime... They're frisking people they feel like frisking. They don't need an excuse for ruining someone's evening or afternoon. And that's precisely why it violates the 4th Amendment.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by urza216

They're frisking people they feel like frisking.

Correct. They just appear to "feel like frisking" people of color disproportionately more, by a large margin, which tends to be frowned upon by people with two or more brain cells to rub together. So there's that, which is a bit of a problem.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

I'm with Lenny on this. I'm assuming those whom the NYC coppers stopped and frisked were giving off signals, by dress or demeanor, indicating they were gang members or criminally inclined. I think it's prudent to check out people who make such a display.

You probably need to see this:

[urza216]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Correct. They just appear to "feel like frisking" people of color disproportionately more, by a large margin, which tends to be frowned upon by people with two or more brain cells to rub together. So there's that, which is a bit of a problem.

And in previous threads, Lenny tries to make it sound like that if he can justify racial profiling, stop and frisk is automatically justified too... And that's BS. Remove race from the equation and stop and frisk is STILL frowned upon by anyone who has any remote respect for civil liberties.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

I'm with Lenny on this. I'm assuming those whom the NYC coppers stopped and frisked were giving off signals, by dress or demeanor, indicating they were gang members or criminally inclined. I think it's prudent to check out people who make such a display.

And you would be incorrect.

The NYPD already has a very, very long history of assaulting minorities. In this case, there is no difference. They were targeting poor black and hispanic communities exclusively.

And before you say anything about statistics, allow me to stop you there: I don't care. You are Constitutionally guaranteed to be protected against unreasonable searches and seizures. Specifically so.

You do not lose your Constitutional protections because "a police officer thought you looked funny". I think you look old and poor. I just don't trust you because of that. Do I get to have you stopped and searched every time you enter my neighborhood, Tom? My neighborhood and I are all capable of funding such an initiative.

[Irishtom29]

Some thoughtful replies to my opinion have made me change my mind, thank you.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by urza216

Cops can stop and frisk anyone they want in NYC. You know that cops are just people, right?

There is no rhyme or reason to this. You can make up anything you want about gang colors or skin colors or crime... They're frisking people they feel like frisking. They don't need an excuse for ruining someone's evening or afternoon. And that's precisely why it violates the 4th Amendment.

It's OK if you want liberalism to cloud your judgment or force you to ignore the statistics.

But honestly, what's a better use of your tax dollars?
1) a cop doing S n F on 4 semi-sober white college frat boys walking down Clark after a Cubs game?
2) a cop doing a S n F on 4 black kids hanging out at 1 AM, wearing gang colors, in an area known for drug dealing and gang banging, where there's shootings on a nightly basis?

See color doesn't matter. It's the same as security at the airport before you get on a plane. Who should be more tightly scrutinized: the 80 year old grandma or the nervous looking 23 year old middle eastern man?

Call it what you want, but statistics don't lie.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by lenniel

It's OK if you want liberalism to cloud your judgment or force you to ignore the statistics.

But honestly, what's a better use of your tax dollars?
1) a cop doing S n F on 4 semi-sober white college frat boys walking down Clark after a Cubs game?
2) a cop doing a S n F on 4 black kids hanging out at 1 AM, wearing gang colors, in an area known for drug dealing and gang banging, where there's shootings on a nightly basis?

See color doesn't matter. It's the same as security at the airport before you get on a plane. Who should be more tightly scrutinized: the 80 year old grandma or the nervous looking 23 year old middle eastern man?

Call it what you want, but statistics don't lie.

Here we go with the liberal politic stuff.

This isn't how it works. Do your research.

What percentage of stop and frisk victims are actually guilty of crime?

How many of them are gang affiliated?

What time of the day are they stopping and frisk?

What percentage of them are wearing gang colors?

Have you wore gang colors before?

When looking at the facts, do you believe that is the best use of tax payers money?

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Here we go with the liberal politic stuff.

This isn't how it works. Do your research.

What percentage of stop and frisk victims are actually guilty of crime?

How many of them are gang affiliated?

What time of the day are they stopping and frisk?

What percentage of them are wearing gang colors?

Have you wore gang colors before?

When looking at the facts, do you believe that is the best use of tax payers money?

Here's another scenario....Let's say there's a nice country club in a lily white suburb where golfers like to hang out at the bar and drink after finishing their round. Let's say there have been a high number of car accidents due to DUI near said CC. Now, the police decide to start putting up sobriety check points on the roads near the CC where people leaving the CC are likely to travel.
Is this a violation of these peoples' civil rights? After all, what right or suspicion do the police have to randomly pull people over and make them prove their sobriety? What about people who weren't even at the CC or don't belong? Oh by the way, if you decide you don't want to wear a seatbelt because you think you're in your right not to, you're probably going to get a nice ticket and fine for that.

Even though you maybe stepped on a few toes and perceivably 'violated' a civil right or two, the end result is that you'll probably have fewer people drinking and driving after leaving the CC, making it safer for everyone.