what ever happened to NU's plans for stadium, arena? renovation? (Chicago: schools, universities)

[jlawrence01]

I have been to Northwestern for football a couple of early season football games. It is one of the dullest CFB experiences that I have had. There is little fan support, no students for the early season games and no spirit. I would rather run out to an NIU game in DeKalb or to Wisconsin-Whitewater or North Central. Even the University of Chicago has a good fan base.

It is never good when you buy a ticket from a scalper at half face and he says "thank goodness I was able to get rid of it" or "now I don't have to go to the game."

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

I have been to Northwestern for football a couple of early season football games. It is one of the dullest CFB experiences that I have had. There is little fan support, no students for the early season games and no spirit. I would rather run out to an NIU game in DeKalb or to Wisconsin-Whitewater or North Central. Even the University of Chicago has a good fan base.

It is never good when you buy a ticket from a scalper at half face and he says "thank goodness I was able to get rid of it" or "now I don't have to go to the game."

The sad thing is, for sports fans anyway, that Northwestern actually has more school spirit than many of the other schools in Chicago/Chicagoland. I went to Loyola, and no one gave a damn about any of our sports teams. Granted our teams mostly sucked, except for the men's volleyball team, but most people just went to Loyola because it was a university in Chicago. A lot of people who I know who went to DePaul were the same.

Loyola doesn't have a football team, but, in my experience, there certainly is a different crowd in the city universities in Chicago vs Illinois' state schools in regards to sports fans, no matter the sport.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

The sad thing is, for sports fans anyway, that Northwestern actually has more school spirit than many of the other schools in Chicago/Chicagoland. I went to Loyola, and no one gave a damn about any of our sports teams. Granted our teams mostly sucked, except for the men's volleyball team, but most people just went to Loyola because it was a university in Chicago. A lot of people who I know who went to DePaul were the same.

I have lived all over the country and honestly, the interest in college sports in the Chicago area is pretty minimal. Sure people may support their alma mater and have some interest in the bowls or the Final Four. The real focus and interest is professional sports.

I am now in Tucson and the average person knows who Arizona is playing, their record, their coach ...

[Larry Siegel]

Northwestern's lukewarm embrace of the college sports culture is exactly as it should be. There are only two reasons I can think of for a college to have a sports program:

1. To provide an opportunity for students to play sports, as a part of their education, and
2. To generate profits to be used for educating students and supporting the research efforts of the faculty.

One can also make a (weak) case that the awareness of a school provided by its competitive sports helps it to recruit good students.

But running an entertainment business on the side does not seem to me to be a legitimate function of a tax-exempt college or university.

So Northwestern has it exactly right. Run a sports program but don't allow it to take over. Welsh-Ryan is fine. If I want to see a game, I can walk there and get in without reserving my place three years in advance and without contributing hundreds of dollars to the school. The next big donation should go to refurbishing the Tech Center, not to building a snazzy replacement for the football stadium.

[knitgirl]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

Northwestern's lukewarm embrace of the college sports culture is exactly as it should be. There are only two reasons I can think of for a college to have a sports program:

1. To provide an opportunity for students to play sports, as a part of their education, and
2. To generate profits to be used for educating students and supporting the research efforts of the faculty.

One can also make a (weak) case that the awareness of a school provided by its competitive sports helps it to recruit good students.

But running an entertainment business on the side does not seem to me to be a legitimate function of a tax-exempt college or university.

So Northwestern has it exactly right. Run a sports program but don't allow it to take over. Welsh-Ryan is fine. If I want to see a game, I can walk there and get in without reserving my place three years in advance and without contributing hundreds of dollars to the school. The next big donation should go to refurbishing the Tech Center, not to building a snazzy replacement for the football stadium.

a great big AMEN to this! I went to U of C and football was such a nonevent. I went to Homecoming my 1st year and marched in a kazoo band. That was the only game I went to in 4 years and that wasn't unusual.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by knitgirl

a great big AMEN to this! I went to U of C and football was such a nonevent. I went to Homecoming my 1st year and marched in a kazoo band. That was the only game I went to in 4 years and that wasn't unusual.

Some would argue that the rather more traditional sports programs at some of the prominent Ivy and highly selective universities of the west coast do in fact contribute in a positive way to the student experience.

The relative desirability firms have for hiring undergrads from Yale, Stanford, Princeton or Harvard who likely have some experience appropriately rooting for football, basketball, hockey or similar mainstream sports probably compares most favorably to students from Hyde Park that may have more fond memories of choosing their Rocky Horror Picture Show get-up for the Lascivious Costume Ball... I kid a little, but there is something to be said for even the historical innovations that Harvard athletics are responsible for -- Harvard Athletic 'Firsts' - Harvard

Of course the history of the Big 10 involves both University of Chicago, which was a founding member of the conference in 1896, as was Northwestern. Northwestern remains the smallest school in the Big 10 and the only non-public institution, though University of Nebraska Lincoln is only about 10% bigger and its Cornhusker's Memorial Stadium is HUGE, with a capacity of 74K+...

[edsg25]

Stanford's been discussed here. It's the best university academically in Division 1. I'd put Northwestern as third. second? that's Duke. And Duke is embarking on a major renovation of its football season starting now in the off season:

https://today.duke.edu/2014/11/wallacewadeconstruction

Stanford has a rich football history, despite its not having a strong fan base. Duke's football history is a joke. And yet it is proceeding ahead with its plans when Northwestern languishes. Duke's relatively small metro area, the Research Triangle, features 3 division one foes, two of which (UNC, NC St) are public and more of a draw than private Duke. Yet Duke builds.

From a demographic perspective, NU is far better off than Duke with the RT's 3 schools and Stanford with the Bay Area's two (with Cal being public); Chicagoland has just one.

Yes, I do believe that better facilities in both football and basketball will aid the NU sports program and make it a more attractive offering.

[RH3Flatlander]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Stanford's been discussed here. It's the best university academically in Division 1. I'd put Northwestern as third. second? that's Duke. And Duke is embarking on a major renovation of its football season starting now in the off season:

https://today.duke.edu/2014/11/wallacewadeconstruction

Stanford has a rich football history, despite its not having a strong fan base. Duke's football history is a joke. And yet it is proceeding ahead with its plans when Northwestern languishes. Duke's relatively small metro area, the Research Triangle, features 3 division one foes, two of which (UNC, NC St) are public and more of a draw than private Duke. Yet Duke builds.

From a demographic perspective, NU is far better off than Duke with the RT's 3 schools and Stanford with the Bay Area's two (with Cal being public); Chicagoland has just one.

Yes, I do believe that better facilities in both football and basketball will aid the NU sports program and make it a more attractive offering.

Duke's presence in a comparably smaller metro is less relevant given the degree of hysteria that surrounds college football in the South. As you mentioned, the metro area has three P5 FBS programs (with Wake Forest and East Carolina not far away) that are all supported with formidable attendance numbers. Duke is using this recent wave of success to improve its chances to compete with its ACC/ECU competitors.

Stanford has a rich football history and while they just did a nice renovation of their stadium, they actually reduced capacity by about 35K seats in the process (a good move IMO). That said, their attendance numbers were a joke before the Harbaugh/Luck era. It was only when the program developed into a top 5 national power that people in the Bay Area really began to notice. As horrible as Chicago is as a college sports market, a top 5 NU team would fill Ryan Field every Saturday.

I wouldn't say NU is languishing. The team is reasonably competitive in the Big Ten, and Ryan Field is a fine place to catch a game with a great deal of history and character. A new sound system, a renovation of the concourses/restrooms, and maybe some new concessions would add to the gameday experience, but overall the stadium is adequate.

What keeps people away from Ryan Field is a lack of connection with NU (a school the majority of Chicagoans will never have any direct connections to), the lack of major on the field success (top 10-15 finishes), and most important, a general indifference toward college sports in the Chicago market. I'm not sure a new stadium brings about a change in this culture unless it is coupled with a timely run to the national playoffs.

BTW, Illinois State is playing for a national championship this weekend at the FCS level (rated 41st in the latest Sagarin ratings ahead of Miami (FL) and Duke). Didn't know? Don't worry, a lot of powerful people in Chicago's sports media scene are unaware as well.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by RH3Flatlander

BTW, Illinois State is playing for a national championship this weekend at the FCS level (rated 41st in the latest Sagarin ratings ahead of Miami (FL) and Duke). Didn't know? Don't worry, a lot of powerful people in Chicago's sports media scene are unaware as well.

which begs the question: why doesn't ISU join the big boys, like NIU does? the school is clearly misplaced, something that i think is also true for SIU.

RH3F, I agree with your spot on and perceptive observations here; for the record though, Stanford didn't renovate its stadium (like its rival Cal did across the bay); it built a whole new one in the shell of the original. just as Chicago's Soldier Field is a new stadium in the footprint of the old.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by edsg25

which begs the question: why doesn't ISU join the big boys, like NIU does? the school is clearly misplaced, something that i think is also true for SIU.

Even at the FCS level, ISU and SIU aren't particularly dominant in any given year. In the 35+ years since Division I-AA/FCS was created, SIU has made it to the playoffs only 8 times and ISU only 5 times. Compare that to, say, 15 appearances by EIU or 16 by Furman or 17 by Northern Iowa but nobody is suggesting they move up to FBS. If SIU or ISU want to run with the big boys, they need to run with the little boys first.