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Hey there. Italian American family here relocating from Staten Island, NY. It's me, my wife and twin boys who will be entering the 9th grade next year. Job requires me to live in city limits. We want a safe, middle class neighborhood where we can raise our family, the job is permanent and I don't think residence requirements are going to go away. We don't need or want anything yuppie like or fancy just working class families, an area with a lot of kids would be nice so that my boys can have friends in the area. In NY there are a couple of specific neighborhoods known for having a lot of residents employed in Law Enforcement etc. and we like that because it tends to keep undesireable elements away. My wife doesn't drive so somewhere convenient to the supermarket etc. so she isn't dependent on me coming home from work to drive her around. We don't need trains at our doorstep but bus service would be nice.
Also I have a frank question and I don't want it to be construed as racist: we would generally prefer public schools because of the cost. My boys do not have the grades for a magnet or a charter school is not a likely possibility. Is there anybody here who is Caucasian and has their children in public schools? I say this because honestly before we moved to Staten Island we were living in Brooklyn and their school was overwhelmingly minority students and my boys were getting bullied because of the misconception that they are easy targets because of their skin color. Kids don't have the PC thing like adults and I don't want my kids in an unsafe situation. Again I don't want to offend anyone but that's the reality. Is the school system in Chicago based on neighborhood schools or is it mixed up via bussing? Of course I understand that all urban schools have many ethnicities but preferably my boys will be in a school where they won't be the only children of european descent in all of their classes.
Budget is negotiable. We pay 3 grand per month here for a 50 year old 3 bedroom 1 story bungalow and hopefully will be spending less. If we like the area we will buy.
I don't envy your situation, CPS neighborhood high schools are pretty awful.
You have 4 citywide magnets that are among the best in the state. Then there is Lincoln Park HS and Lane Tech which are pretty decent. After that you are looking at a huge pile of suck.
Most in your situation are sending their kids to Catholic high schools.
Sounds to me like you're looking for the cop neighborhoods. In Chicago, those are going to be fairly suburban in feel, though you can still get bus service and Metra (regional commuter train) access to downtown in a lot of areas.
Check out Edison Park, Forest Glen, Mount Greenwood, Norwood Park, and Dunning. There's an article about this here: What
I can't speak to schools in any of those areas. Sorry.
Most neighborhood High Schools are a joke, with an exception, Taft (Northwest Side of Chicago) is a decent neighborhood high school. It also has an I.B. program. I had two kids graduate from there. It was a pit until about 12-14 years ago. They tightened up the boundaries a bit to encourage more neighborhood kids to attend that couldn't/wouldn't make it into the selective admission schools or afford Catholic tuition.
Most neighborhood High Schools are a joke, with an exception, Taft (Northwest Side of Chicago) is a decent neighborhood high school. It also has an I.B. program. I had two kids graduate from there. It was a pit until about 12-14 years ago. They tightened up the boundaries a bit to encourage more neighborhood kids to attend that couldn't/wouldn't make it into the selective admission schools or afford Catholic tuition.
Good suggestion. You'll also be able to afford living in Taft school boundaries whereas in Lincoln Park HS boundaries, it's not very affordable. Luckily, Chicago is much cheaper than New York, so you probably will be more likely to find something nice in your budget.
Thanks to the suggestions about Taft HS. I looked it up on a review website and me and my wife think it would be a good fit. Test scores seem solid and most of the parent/student/teacher reviews were good, also the demographics seem similar to where we are now so it won't be a culture shock.
How would two kids from NY be relieved by Chicagoan kids? I'm originally from Boston but my parents moved me and my siblings to Brooklyn when I was in junior high and I remember getting some cr*p about my accent etc. but this was decades ago so I don't know if urban teenagers are like that anymore being that we live in a much more connected world than we did back then. I'll remind them to not wear any Yankees gear of course.
On another note I found a hom for rent online in the Taft district. I think the neighborhood is called Norwood Park. However on Google maps it seemed that if you walk one block south you're now in a place called Harwood Heights, IL. Is this area nice? Safe? It seemed it was all brick bungalows very similar to the outer neighborhoods here in NYC.
Also, a question about the Metra. From my understanding it's a commuter rail similar to the the Long Island Rail Road or Metro North right? As in its only purpose to get to the Loop/downtown as opposed to something like the subway or the L or local buses which are to get around the neighborhood and such. We have no subway service here on Staten Island so my wife and kids are accustomed to getting around solely on local buses when I am at work with the car...is the area that feeds into Taft HS well served by local buses or is Metra the only transit option? Would it be difficult to run errands in the area (groceries, pharmacy, deli, local dr. appointments, post office, gym etc.) without the use of a car?
Does this area have a dominant background group (ex. Polish, Italian, Irish, Russian, Jewish) or is it a mixed bag? Also in regards to the Italian American community in Chicago: is there a little Italy type area or a central neighborhood where we can find Italian bakereries/delis restaurants etc. I'm not talking about a tourist spot but the general area where Italians in Chicagoland live where we can fjnd these amenities. Does chicago have ethnic areas like that? When I came for my interview I stayed at an airbnb apartment in the "Ukrainian Village" but I didn't see anything Ukrainian about it, and I know that Chicago has a large Polish community but what about others like Italian, Irish, German, Chinese and so forth?
Also in regards to the Italian American community in Chicago: is there a little Italy type area or a central neighborhood where we can find Italian bakereries/delis restaurants etc. I'm not talking about a tourist spot but the general area where Italians in Chicagoland live where we can fjnd these amenities. Does chicago have ethnic areas like that? When I came for my interview I stayed at an airbnb apartment in the "Ukrainian Village" but I didn't see anything Ukrainian about it, and I know that Chicago has a large Polish community but what about others like Italian, Irish, German, Chinese and so forth?
Italian...kind of. Theres a Little Italy clustered around Taylor Street which used to be heavily Italian and some restaurants and delis in that area remain but most of them assimilated long ago. You will find the same thing is true of most European immigrants. Some pockets here and there but nothing that would really comprise a true ethnic neighborhood. Youre as likely to find them in the suburbs. Ukrainian Village used to be Ukrainian. You will still see some of those older residents if youre paying attention, but its gentrified to the point where they're definitely a minority now.
Other immigrant groups still have strong ethnic neighborhoods though. Chinatown is still predominantly Chinese. Pilsen used to be Czech and is now predominantly Mexican, though gentrifying. Little Village is also heavily Mexican. Vietnamese around Argyle Street. On Devon Ave you will find a large concentration of Indian restaurants, and then further west theres a high concentration of Hasidic jews. Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park.
Italian...kind of. Theres a Little Italy clustered around Taylor Street which used to be heavily Italian and some restaurants and delis in that area remain but most of them assimilated long ago. You will find the same thing is true of most European immigrants. Some pockets here and there but nothing that would really comprise a true ethnic neighborhood. Youre as likely to find them in the suburbs. Ukrainian Village used to be Ukrainian. You will still see some of those older residents if youre paying attention, but its gentrified to the point where they're definitely a minority now.
Other immigrant groups still have strong ethnic neighborhoods though. Chinatown is still predominantly Chinese. Pilsen used to be Czech and is now predominantly Mexican, though gentrifying. Little Village is also heavily Mexican. Vietnamese around Argyle Street. On Devon Ave you will find a large concentration of Indian restaurants, and then further west theres a high concentration of Hasidic jews. Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park.
Thanks. I obviously know that european immigrants - having been here longer than say people from South Korea or something - are quite "assimilated", I'm the grandson of Italian immigrants from Naples and I would say I'm pretty Amerixan. But even though many immigrant groups have lost the language it is still a big thing to hang on to the cultural aspects like the food etc.
probably the majority of people that I know are of Italian ancestry and although you won't hear much spoken Italian you will definitely find that they still hold on to the culture of their parents/grand parents especially in regards to food an religion. Same thing with many people I know of Polish descent. I wasn't asking if I could find a district where I hear Giuseppe's and Tony's and speaking Italian on the street like Mulberry St in 1940, I was simply asking if there's an area where there is a concentration of things like Italian bakeries/groceries/"pork stores" (basically an Italian deli that sells prepared foods like pre-made chicken cutlets, hot sandwiches etc.) because Italian dishes are a large component of our diet. I do not know why you had to give me a semi-lecture about assimilation and gentrifying areas, all I asked is where there is a concentration of those things..that is the 21st century meaning of a european ethnic neighborhood.
Thanks to the suggestions about Taft HS. I looked it up on a review website and me and my wife think it would be a good fit. Test scores seem solid and most of the parent/student/teacher reviews were good, also the demographics seem similar to where we are now so it won't be a culture shock.
How would two kids from NY be relieved by Chicagoan kids? I'm originally from Boston but my parents moved me and my siblings to Brooklyn when I was in junior high and I remember getting some cr*p about my accent etc. but this was decades ago so I don't know if urban teenagers are like that anymore being that we live in a much more connected world than we did back then. I'll remind them to not wear any Yankees gear of course.
On another note I found a hom for rent online in the Taft district. I think the neighborhood is called Norwood Park. However on Google maps it seemed that if you walk one block south you're now in a place called Harwood Heights, IL. Is this area nice? Safe? It seemed it was all brick bungalows very similar to the outer neighborhoods here in NYC.
Also, a question about the Metra. From my understanding it's a commuter rail similar to the the Long Island Rail Road or Metro North right? As in its only purpose to get to the Loop/downtown as opposed to something like the subway or the L or local buses which are to get around the neighborhood and such. We have no subway service here on Staten Island so my wife and kids are accustomed to getting around solely on local buses when I am at work with the car...is the area that feeds into Taft HS well served by local buses or is Metra the only transit option? Would it be difficult to run errands in the area (groceries, pharmacy, deli, local dr. appointments, post office, gym etc.) without the use of a car?
Does this area have a dominant background group (ex. Polish, Italian, Irish, Russian, Jewish) or is it a mixed bag? Also in regards to the Italian American community in Chicago: is there a little Italy type area or a central neighborhood where we can find Italian bakereries/delis restaurants etc. I'm not talking about a tourist spot but the general area where Italians in Chicagoland live where we can fjnd these amenities. Does chicago have ethnic areas like that? When I came for my interview I stayed at an airbnb apartment in the "Ukrainian Village" but I didn't see anything Ukrainian about it, and I know that Chicago has a large Polish community but what about others like Italian, Irish, German, Chinese and so forth?
As long as you and your kids don't constantly compare/contrast Chicago to New York and talk about how you're from New York all the time, nobody will really notice or care where you're from.
Norwood Park is a nice quiet neighborhood. Harwood Heights is fine too, but it's is a separate municipality from Chicago so you wouldn't meet your residency requirement living there. Harwood Heights and Norridge are two suburbs that are kinda lumped together and completely surrounded by Chicago on all sides. Ever see a map of Chicago and notice there's a chunk missing on the far Northwest side? Now you know why. I guess they managed to resist the annexation wave or something.
Unfortunately for your situation, Chicago wasn't immersed in Italian culture/heritage the way East Coast cities were. Best place to still find Italian groceries and delis and what-not would be Elmwood Park. Little Italy has been reduced to a facade neighborhood, and it's even starting to lose its Italian facade. Elmwood Park would be easier to get to from Norwood Park than Little Italy would be anyway.
To the extent that any one ethnicity is predominant around Norwood Park, it would be Polish. There's a smattering of Irish a bit north in Edison Park. But mostly what you'll find is just a hodgepodge of largely white ethnicities.
Yes, the point of Metra is to shuttle people to and from downtown. Unfortunately, the same goes for the CTA "L" system too, but they do make a lot more local stops within the city than Metra does. Cross-town trips that don't involve going to (or toward) downtown are best done by car. They can be done by bus too, but only at a leisurely pace.
Only 44% of students meet the incredibly weak State standards, that is FAR below the embarassing State averages and only a tiny bit above the horrendous CPS average of a shocking 37%.
The trend line, even adjusting for changing "cut scores", shows a school that has fewer and fewer students doing well over time, a very troubling situation -- TAFT HIGH SCHOOL: By School, District & State
CPS has cut back on art, music and athletics too. The $10k or so that a private school costs ensures your kid will have a "real" high school experience as opposed to the "discount store" version that Rahm's austerity program forces on kids that don't get chauffeured to school by armed guards like his precious little gems going to UofC Lab School. Welcome to the "Chicago Way". Better to find this stuff out NOW than after you've uprooted your family to work in the most segragated and corrupt northern city in the US...
The sites that let any shmoe write some glowing review of a crap school becuase they are desperate to con fools into buying their lousy real estate only trick the gullible.
If you gotta live inside the "walled fortress" that Rahm continues to impose on City Workers you are pretty much stuck budgeting for private school unless your idea of "success" is being totally unprepared for the rigors of a real college and taking a few semesters of remedial work. For kids that have the chops to get into a fully selective admissions high school like North Side or Payton they can compete with solid suburban high schools but the environment at pretty much any "attendance area" type CPS school with such poor test scores and high percentage of low income students is not going to be worth the risks.
Last edited by chet everett; 02-19-2015 at 08:16 AM..
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Taft?!?
