Reviving the Crosstown Expressway (Chicago, Addison: apartment, crime, daycare)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by CWPP

...suburbanize the city in order to better accommodate car traffic. Cities can and should cater to those of us who prefer to get around via transit, walking and biking. There are a lot of examples to the contrary--dying and unappealing cities whose central business districts have been bisected by freeways and pockmarked with surface parking lots in order to attract drivers. It doesn't work. Move to the suburbs instead.

...

Seems to me all Target stores as well as Costco and big grocery places like Mariano's as well most of the other fast food places inside Chicago have just as much nasty parking as anything in the burbs...

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Seems to me all Target stores as well as Costco and big grocery places like Mariano's as well most of the other fast food places inside Chicago have just as much nasty parking as anything in the burbs...

Depends where the grocery stores and Targets are located. I've seen various Targets and grocery stores downtown and on the North Side that have little to no lot parking like you'd find in the burbs, and instead they have added parking either above or underneath their own buildings.

Obviously not universal throughout the city (or even the North Side), but they can built without the massive suburban parking lots.

[CWPP]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Seems to me all Target stores as well as Costco and big grocery places like Mariano's as well most of the other fast food places inside Chicago have just as much nasty parking as anything in the burbs...

Yes, and it's awful. For example, the area around Elston and Logan is a hellish example of suburban-style commercial development within the city. It is the worst of both worlds--urban congestion and suburban ugliness. I avoid it at all costs. We don't need any more of that.

[Avondalist]

Originally Posted by via chicago

I also hope that the suburbs start to begin what will be a LONG process of correcting their post-war sins and emulating some of these sensible development strategies, but Im not holding my breath we will see light rail in Barrington anytime soon.

Here it is.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by CWPP

Yes, and it's awful. For example, the area around Elston and Logan is a hellish example of suburban-style commercial development within the city. It is the worst of both worlds--urban congestion and suburban ugliness. I avoid it at all costs. We don't need any more of that.

70-75% of Chicago households own cars. The percentage is even higher among affluent households.

So obviously retailers aren't going to ignore 3/4 of the city's households when building stores. In 99.9% of the U.S. you need plenty of free parking to have functional big box retail, and that includes Chicago.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

Depends where the grocery stores and Targets are located. I've seen various Targets and grocery stores downtown and on the North Side that have little to no lot parking like you'd find in the burbs, and instead they have added parking either above or underneath their own buildings.

There is no big box Target or grocery store in Chicago that has "little to no lot parking". They all have plenty of free parking, no different than the suburbs. The projects would never even be financed without the parking.

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

There is no big box Target or grocery store in Chicago that has "little to no lot parking". They all have plenty of free parking, no different than the suburbs. The projects would never even be financed without the parking.

You completely missed the point of my post. Suburban Targets are typically surrounded by large surface level lots, whereas there are Targets in the city which are not.

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by Avondalist

Here it is.

you got me. i guess this means i have to go to confession now

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

You completely missed the point of my post. Suburban Targets are typically surrounded by large surface level lots, whereas there are Targets in the city which are not.

true its better than the suburban model, but only marginally so. it still encourages more traffic and congestion rather than less.

and even still, many of the big box stores still have big surface level lots that deaden street life. look at the new target on division (everything to the left of the target sign is parking).

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by via chicago

true its better than the suburban model, but only marginally so. it still encourages more traffic and congestion rather than less.

and even still, many of the big box stores still have big surface level lots that deaden street life. look at the new target on division (everything to the left of the target sign is parking).

They're coming into the city one way or another though. Car owners and car free people both find them to be convenient, myself included, so I frankly don't have a problem when Target (and other large businesses) open them in a fairly dense neighborhoods with the above or below garage style parking.

The Target on Broadway by Sunnyside is far less annoying than the Jewel just south of it, for example.